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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:10 pm 
 Post subject: Migic Find: The worst feature of D2?
 
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Paladin

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:13 pm
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As the title says, i think this is the worst feature of D2 and any game that uses a similar feature. Why?? Were you ever in dilemma whether to equip the better statistically item or just equip the one that increases your M.F?? Well, this is what i mean by worst feature. In games that are all about equipping your best gear to beat the content, a feature like this only brings disgust/annoyance (at least to me) and instead of enjoying the statistically top items u have you go {filtered} around trying to increase your MF to find more items. :x :x :x

And i dont want to say: this is just my opinion (which in the end, it is...) cause i think my reasoning makes sense.
I would dare to suggest to all the modders of D2 and not only, to totally remove similar aspects from their games/mods. As im going to do with my mod (if i ever finish it :lol: )


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:09 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Migic Find: The worst feature of D2?
 
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Knight

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:24 am
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Magic Find is a property a player may choose to stack but in the end it comes down to killing speed. If a character is face rolling the monsters then sacrificing a bit of damage for a better chance of a drop seems to be a fair trade.
It is the players that gimped their characters, by stacking as much magic find as possible, to the point they had problems killing monsters in a timely manner that ended up being unhappy with magic find.

Magic find is a feature that is an option and not a necessity in the normal game. The more options or choices a game offers the better.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:55 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Migic Find: The worst feature of D2?
 
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Squire

Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 11:30 pm
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@Topic. No it's a very good feature. WAIT, I was actually tended towards your opinion once. So let me explain this.

Why is it a very good feature? In short: It allows specialization of your character without being an ALL FOR ONE-General-dude. - which is to sum it up simply bad game design. Good design is Gear supporting a certain area (MF) that weakens the other areas. Let me show, "there are" 5 areas, imo:

1. Leveling (1 to 70, or so) / Rushing, Classic Keygating selftaxying etc. In Short. Bringing a char up or getting RUNES via trick. less important area. The reason I bring this up for an endgame discussion, it can still be endgame for several instances... rushing people for their HFQ, the mentioned selfrush for HFQ, Socket quests, but also Hardcore bringing yourself to endgame again. Less important maybe but still an area!

2. Magic-Finding/Boss Farming (term for overview) Increasing the Chance for Rares and Uniques, and at higher amounts much less See graph when scrolling down here, which reduces the chance to find Whites=BASES without a compareable win in Rares/Uniques. But it still increases the chance for the those. This is especially important in the begin of a Ladder, where everyone wants a lot of UNIQUES (and possibly rares, at least as fillers). Uniques are quick easy methods to gear well. This most often is abused on Bosses and also uses the Magic Find Trick via 2nd Slot.. The time it takes getting to a boss alone can justify getting extra magic find at the cost of killing power - hence Boss Farming as the overview.

3. General farming for Bases/CrowdFarming , the best magics = Charms/but also magic amulets can be BIS for some builds(...) which "require" no magic find!, AND Runes. This is all about crowdfarming afap, where Magic Find has no influence, or a negative one. The only chance to increase dropping charms and good bases is more faster killing of alot of enemies. Contrary people who concentrate on magic finding aren't that good here: Not only do they sacrifice their gear slots of damage/defense/versatiliy FOR magic finding but people who specialize here do increase their chance for other Magics(Blues) by a too high amount reducing chance for good bases. (Don't confuse these "blues" with the charms or Amulets I talked about, these ALLWAYS AT LEAST ARE BLUE which is the point here in no magic find). This paragraph partly goes in line with 5. Highlevel Exping.

4. Bosskilling/Uberfarming/Keyfarming. The amount of dedication required here I don't have to explain, Keyfarming, Uberlevels, Uberbosses, Tristram.. UDiablo. They all require very dedicated gear ... and this was just the begin of extra content. Games like Path of Exile (or median) show you much more how dedicated you can get in a Hack'n Slay.

5. Highlevel Exping... This is the ultimate "goal" or the last area of the game, where everything comes together. You optimally use everything from each of the previous sections (You got yourself leveld and some runes, got good uniques, good bases for runewords or upgrades to uniques, charms). In short you got your almost dream equip. The equip you want to really quickly farm EXP on the highest level: Seal-farming (Quick Diablo), Baaling. And that all in full games with as much damage and safety as posssible...

Diablo 2 is actually a mysterious game that involves and uses all this pretty well. There is alot of method behind Diablo 2 that many don't see (and a reason why many games after D2 failed hard)

- - -
A little add of an example... I can't and don't really want to make it a super well thought out mega answer, so just a bit:
The mentioned weapon swap method already specializes your character more towards magic finding. When you "press W" (i changed that hotkey..) you get about +150 (and possibly much more) magic find on top. At the cost of another 2nd slot! There are quite some useful ones for other stages of the game,, such as buffing,, safety,, extra movement/teleport,, extra exp,, more = alternate damage vs a certain mob (immunes or pierceable). So dedicating to magic find here is another way you decide for, fostering deepness of the game...
- - -

TO CONCLUDE: MAGIC FINDING or MAGIC FINDERS are really simply a very small part in this game - You get one to get yourself gear to start with, but it's not even requird you can also simply start farming bases/charms/runes and trade it for uniques (despite also finding some) - in Vanilla this would be a Javazon in Cows. (did you know that 50 magic find has almost no diminishing returns to Uniques? This is an efficient increase even if you go for Base-Farming, since it really lowly reduces chance for other things - so this is still okay.).
-> Turn your "frustration" into a decision - what do you want to specialize in? What do you want to do? And if you want to do more get another character, that's the fun of the game.

To add: Any game that removes this, is an oversimplification and a not very smart approach in terms of an interesting game... A removal would simply be an advertisement feature: HEY LOOK we do this better! But in fact it's not, and there are many features like that that are not better. Best example is Diablo3 that (among MF) removed alot of deepness from the game, such as Faster Hit Recovery, different Crafting etc. So Please don't (if that was intended) use a good short feel of simplification as a justification for good game design, it's not, at least not in general. Emotions are no reasoning, they are short term. I know this! (Besides don't forget to keep in mind that a game might have simply included magic find in a wrong way, see the points 1-5..).


By the way: This and alot of other questioned mechanics in D2 that I can all explain to you (such as low tier drops in Hell, or having to Click on Gold, or having to use Potions) are actually all well intended (while being part of gaming history, too/there are several reasons ofcourse it's not a black&white). The D2 developers were simply quite genius and that brought alot of success in appeal to the very masses.

PS: I'm no native and never was the best writer, so you don't have to understand and follow me everywhere I go, but this should really give you a decent jist and overview of the reasoning. PoE's success is a good prove of all this (there is alot of different directions of builds..). I have this opinion for longer (while also being against it for some time as pointed out). So read again.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:43 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Migic Find: The worst feature of D2?
 
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Angel
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Its bad. Damage is already supposed to lead to higher magic find, as you kill faster.


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