Tournament Central

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Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:05 pm

Tournament Central is your one stop ES shopping experience for all things related to tournaments: the schedule of events, the 25 Ancient Warriors of Eastern Sun Ranking, the Tournament Hall of Fame, and of course, lots and lots of your discussion. Enjoy. Jump in. Sound off.

Tournament Schedule

Below is the table of current and upcoming Eastern Sun tournaments. Major events typically span all 3 Difficulties, whereas a Mini would encompass only Normal Difficulty or even a small portion of Normal. If you would like to host a tournament, please discuss your idea in this thread. Hosts are encouraged to post their tournament thread no later than 48 hours before official start time to allow discussion and final tweaking of the ruleset.

Code: Select all

Start          Class     Event (Host)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 03         Major     Eastern Sun / Zy-El Bingo Tournament (Metro)

May 30         Major     Eastern Sun Heptad Team Tournament (Metro)

Sep 07         Major     Stingray's Speedrun Challenge (stingray)

Sep 09         Major     The Immortals Tournament (Hygilliak)
WIKI tournament page: http://miyoshino.la.coocan.jp/eswiki/?ES_Tournament


The 25 Ancient Warriors of Eastern Sun

The table below lists the top 25 Eastern Sun tournament players that have competed in a minimum of 5 events. The ranking is a simple Win/Loss system (Kills/(Field-Events)) and then converted to a Wealth number. The bottom 15 players carry the Ninja rank and the Samurai/Shogun/Emperor ranks are reserved for the top 10 players.

Code: Select all

The 25 Ancient Warriors of Eastern Sun (9/15/2009)

Player	        Kills     Field     Event#    Wealth        Rank
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Parabola	      130       142       8         970149        Emperor
Metropolis Man	352       467       33        811060        Shogun
Dapaba	        137       180       10        805882        Shogun
Logger_120	    94	     127       9         796610        Shogun
boobers          52        73        5         764706        Samurai
Goeido	        186       259       15        762295        Samurai
AngusT	        220       317       22        745763        Samurai
Nameless	      198       283       17        744361        Samurai
swevev	        223       324       22        738411        Samurai
Moonie	        76        119       11        703704        Samurai
czg  	         40        63        6         701754        Ninja
Blinn	         205       316       20        692568        Ninja
Bobey	         74        114       6         685185        Ninja
raidenderby      123       211       11        615000        Ninja
Billybgame	    206       383       24        573816        Ninja
BeArE            36        70        5         553846        Ninja
A	             55        111       9         539216        Ninja
dawe1313     	 72        147       9         521739        Ninja
Phlebiac	      69        151       8         482517        Ninja
angiras	       61        142       11        465648        Ninja
the_bogan        32         81       5         421053        Ninja
MasterKazoom	  40        104       7         412371        Ninja
Audaces	       42        117       8         385321        Ninja
AdmiralCrackbar  41        114       5         376147        Ninja
Freykin	       79        237       16        357466        Ninja
Eastern Sun Tournament Hall of Fame

The large number of competitive tournaments is a big draw for many Eastern Sun players. In fact, several ES players have stated they wouldn’t be playing ES if it weren’t for the fun tourneys. With many events now in the history books it’s time to immortalize past Champions. Sit back and enjoy a trip down memory lane...

1st Eastern Sun Wrecking Ball
September 4, 2006[/size]

Participants: 15
Winner: Billybgame
Character/Build: Paladin (HolyBillysGhost)—Fist of the Heavens, Protection from Evil, Zeal
Comments: Ground Zero for ES tournaments. Nearly all participants were new to the mod and were still learning its intricacies — no one made it to Hell Difficulty. Billy showed everyone why he loves Pallys so much.

2nd Eastern Sun Wrecking Ball
October 31, 2006[/size]

Participants: 29
Winner: Logger_120
Character/Build: Amazon (Jansaadi)—Lightning Fury
Comments: This oldie but goodie stills retains the high water mark for sheer participation. It was quite an exciting finish between Nameless and Logger in the final days.

Runewords/Gemwords Tournament
December 31, 2006
[/size]
Participants: 12
Winner: oldboy
Character/Build: Amazon (Rondra)—Lightning Fury
Comments: A very fun tourney that penalized players for character level. oldboy finished 5 levels below Blinn and that was the only difference between their scores — a very close race.

Craftsman Tourney
May 17, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 19
Winner: swevev
Character/Build: Sorceress (Nado)—Twister
Comments: Grinding his Sorceress to 93, plus making a high-level LoD runeword for the Bonus sealed the victory for swevev (aka max).

A Slightly Random Tournament
May 24, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 21
Winner: AngusT
Character/Build: Paladin (Valerian)
Comments: Basically a carbon-copy of a SPF event, Logger’s Random Tourney saw great participation. Angus’ Pally gained top spot just days after the event began in January and never relinquished it.

3rd Eastern Sun Wrecking Ball — Planes, Tanks, and Officers
May 31, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 14
Winner: Hans
Army/Characters: 101st Airborne, comprised of an Officer (Patton, a Druid summoner), a Tank (Sherman, an EF Druid), and a Plane (Mustang, a Sorceress).
Comments: A multiple-character tournament which may explain the lower numbers due to the amount of work involved. Hans, Angus, and Logger breathed new life into the event at the end with Hans giving his army the victory.

Game Face #1 — Concentrate Barbs vs. Iaigiri Assassins
October 31, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 24
Winner: raidenderby
Character/Build: Assassin (SorcyMinx) — Iaigiri
Comments: 2007’s biggest event and a brand new format — team competition. Only Goeido topped raidenderby in Damage and boobers was the only player to beat the champ’s Defense. When all was said and done raidenderby put together a phenomenal character and nearly hit a million points.

Eastern Sun Obsession Tournament
November 30, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 18
Winner: Nameless
Character/Build: Paladin (Frosty) — Holy Freeze, Vengeance
Comments: This was a very interesting tournament, both in its very restrictive ruleset and how it played out the last 6 weeks. I think everyone just assumed angiras was going to win this event. I know I did. He made a monumental effort in the first 6 days of the tournament and then disappeared. But, his Zon, Dbowie, never relinquished her throne. Another player who vanished from ES was Nameless. He resurfaced and enters this event at the end of October and the rest is history. He essentially charged up the leaderboard unchallenged.

2nd Annual Runewords/Gemwords Tournament
December 31, 2007
[/size]
Participants: 12
Winner: Parabola
Character/Build: Amazon (TheCauterizer) — Lightning Arrow, Exploding Arrow
Comments: Like Nameless in the Obsession Tourney, Parabola was late to the party. But, at the point at which he signed on to this event (Nov 4) he had already proven his skill by being the only player to finish the King of the Hill Tournament. Parabola obviously devoted some serious time to this event because he finished the tourney and retired his Zon on Dec 6.

The Vanity Fair CatWalk
January 31, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 14
Winner: raidenderby
Character/Build: Barbarian (Lovesockets) — Concentrate
Comments: A very fun, but farming-intensive event with Hell Andariel's Dressing Room as the grand finale. Metro's FOTH Pally, LadyKiller, was in first place for much of the tourney. raidenderby called out Metro in the tourney thread and said, "I'm coming to take that shiny 1st place from you." Turns out — he was a man of his word and bagged his 2nd Major Championship.

The 2nd Set Worshippers Tournament
February 29, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 16
Winner: Dapaba
Character/Build: Necromancer (Frank) — Summoner
Comments: He came. He conquered. And before we could even get comfortable with him around the forums, Dapaba was gone. He and Metro traded top spots the first couple weeks of the event, but Dapaba went on a rampage and pushed his character all the way to a lofty lvl 96 by the first week of October. His Necro Summoner completed every Quest in the game and assembled every Set — including the Cow King Set! Truly, an impressive accomplishment.

1st King of the Hill Tournament
April 07, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 9
Winner: Parabola
Character/Build: Barbarian (CaptainStrobe) — WarCry/Nova
Comments: Unquestionably the most difficult tournament to date, the King of the Hill Tournament was the supreme challenge for those willing to accept it. Parabola, in his very first ES tournament, took the challenge, and really made a name for himself with a big win.

Elzix and Gheed's Vendor Bender
April 30, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 8
Winner: boobers
Character/Build: Necromancer (Nagash) — Summoner
Comments: A very small field size that unfortunately contributed to no one actually making a "vendor bender." boobers and I both took our characters to the end of Nightmare and stopped playing. However, this "go as far as you can on as little as possible" concept does have good potential as a Mini, so Hans may opt to do that in the future.

Wrecking Ball IV — Maximum Melee Merc Smackdown
June 30, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 16
Winner: Parabola
Character/Build: Assassin (darkneSs) — Shuriken
Comments: As the name implies, this rendition of Wrecking Ball really focused on the mercs; specifically, the melee mercs from Act II and Act V. Parabola amassed some incredible strength and damage scoring components for his merc and with this win he is the 1st ES tournament player to earn a hat trick — 3 Major victories.

Kashya's Summer Rogue Training Camp
July 28, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 8
Winner: Marty81
Character/Build: Sorceress (Rogue_Mage) — Cold
Comments: There have been so many Mini tournaments over the past year and a half, so it's nice that one finally qualifies for the Millionaires' Club and a Hall of Fame listing (8 participants). In his first ES event, Marty and his Sorceress put it all together and pushed his Normal Rogue's Dexterity to 1210 and never slipped up during the NM Rogues' Special Areas clears.

2nd Craftsmen Tournament
August 31, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 31
Winner: raidenderby
Character/Build: Druid (VinniesVines) — Vine Summoner
Comments: A fantastic tournament that broke the long-standing participation record held by Wrecking Ball II. Tsuru had just given the Druid Vines a major buff before this event kicked off, so it's no surprise that many of the top finishers chose that particular build. raidenderby now joins Parabola in the super exclusive Hat Trick Club — 3 Major titles to a single player.

Metro Mini #7 — Cow King's Wealth-O-Rama
September 08, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 15
Winner: Metropolis Man
Character/Build: Barbarian (GoldSwinger) — Double Swing
Comments: A 7-month long Mini that was more of a Major — the mother of all goldfind/magic find tourneys. Lots of action in the beginning and then unfortunately, half the field was wiped out from RIPs. So, in the end, only max and Metro made their NM Cow runs.

A VERY Random Tournament
September 29, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 34
Winner: bobey
Character: Sorceress (folle)
Comments: The new participation record that Craftsman established only a month ago was broken with this event. A lot of new players rolled the dice and gave it a shot, but this event also brought out some old veterans that had been dormant. Bobey was one of those players. His skill assignment for his Sorceress was: Aerial Guard/Energy Shield/Fire Mastery. Not a great roll, but somehow he put it all together and topped Parabola by a single point. Props also need to go out to Valherran who leveled his Amazon to 100 — the first tournament player to ever make that accomplishment.

Game Face #2 — Druids vs. Necros (Summoners’ Golf Outing)
November 17, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 25
Winner (Team): Druids
Winner (Individual): Parabola
Character: Necromancer (BoomstickFive)
Comments: It was the big summoner showdown with all players pitting their skills against Hell’s worst golf course. With 5 Druid team players making it all the way through the game, it was tough for the Necros to keep pace. Dapaba topped the Druid team and his character, Vinnie, turned in the top Experience number. But, Parabola’s Necro, BoomstickFive, earns the overall top spot with the most Slvl points and a phenomenal 14 auras!

A Cutthroat Competition
December 1, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 13
Winner: Dapaba
Character: Barbarian (Moorduk) — Frenzy
Comments: The format of this Mini was fun...Knives only. And all of the scoring components focused on Knives. As the saying goes, "3rd Time's a Charm," and Dapaba took his 3rd character all the way to the top with some truly mind-blowing scores.

Ultra-Rare Collector's Tournament
December 29, 2008
[/size]
Participants: 8
Winner: Moonie
Character: Barbarian (Ragar) — Frenzy
Comments: Goeido stepped up as host for the first time with this creative idea of a tourney based around Rares. It was a very difficult event — the final table saw almost a solid line of RIPs. But, Moonie took his Barb further than anyone else and bagged his first Major championship.

Obsession II Tournament
January 19, 2009
[/size]
Participants: 16
Winner: Dapaba
Character: Druid (Fernando) — Creeping Doom/Summon Elemental
Comments: A slightly smaller field this time around than the first one, but it was still a great event. Another big win for Dapaba in this event and he rocketed his Druid all the way to lvl 98 in the span of just three weeks.

3rd Runewords/Gemwords Tournament
March 23, 2009
[/size]
Participants: 11
Winner: Metropolis Man
Character: Sorceress (Tahki) — Glacial Spike
Comments: Due to having so many jackpots, Metro took a gamble and retired his Sorceress early at the beginning of Act V Hell. There was some late activity from Nameless, Billy and dawe, but Metro's score wasn't topped.

freykin's Forging with Fire Roundup
April 20, 2009
[/size]
Participants: 11
Winner: kjara
Character: Assassin (Brigit) — Fists of Fire
Comments: A relative newcomer to the ES tournament scene, kjara made a strong statement with his performance in this difficult Mini. Nearly half the field washed out to RIPs and kjara and Metro ended up being the only two competitors who made it all the way for the final River of Flame clear.

3rd Set Worshipper's Tournament
May 4, 2009
[/size]
Participants: 14
Winner: kjara
Character: Paladin (Keldorn) — Zeal / Holy Freeze
Comments: With back to back wins kjara is showing all of the ES heavies that he's a force to be reckoned with. With only two Rounds spent in this Blackjack-themed event, kjara had a nice cushion at the end and wisely chose not to do the Hell Nihlathak Quest and jeopardize his win.

Wrecking Ball V Tournament
September 11, 2009
[/size]
Participants: 15
Winner: Goeido
Character: Barbarian (Leopard) — Concentrate/Bash
Comments: Named after the German super-tank, Goeido's Leopard character topped a pretty stout field. After some coaxing from Metro, even A came out of the woodwork for this event. Great job, Goeido on a big win to put the wraps on ES's longest running tournament series.
Last edited by Metropolis Man on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm, edited 57 times in total.
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Post by Hans » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:47 am

The bling scoring is going to be different this time around. The VF#2 will be using the new limited no rerun format. We are still working on the Bling scoring factor. I am thinking of merging the Bling..., ...Bling, Glimmer scoring components into one (Bling). There will be Waypoint and Quests scoring component and then the PitD Pain in the Domain multiplier.

I am leaning for the jewels and gems to only count once and not double for two handed weapons.

I will be working this evening on the rules and hopefully send Moonie in a few hours the rules and hope that it will be the final rule set and Post it by Thursday the rules.
"Hi. My name is Hans, and I am addicted to a game that is not yet been made" - Card carrying member of D3 Addictions Anonymous, since June 2008.
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Post by Metropolis Man » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:50 am

[quote=Hans";p="407014"]The VF#2 will be using the new limited no rerun format.[/quote]

That's nice to hear. I'm glad you found the format attractive. If you haven't already worked out the wording of how this should be explained, do you want me to phrase something for you?
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Post by Hans » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:55 am

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407015"][quote=Hans";p="407014"]The VF#2 will be using the new limited no rerun format.[/quote]

That's nice to hear. I'm glad you found the format attractive. If you haven't already worked out the wording of how this should be explained, do you want me to phrase something for you?[/quote]

I will send you and Blinn the rules in a few hours. If you have a better wording for it then I will use it.

[edit]
I may just post the rules here and if need be edit them.
Last edited by Hans on Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Hi. My name is Hans, and I am addicted to a game that is not yet been made" - Card carrying member of D3 Addictions Anonymous, since June 2008.
Card carrying member of Mentaldom, since May 2006 - Zy-El Hardcore.
"German pornstar/Bee Gee lookalike" & "The Blacksmith"
Trying to picture Hans as a Dominion...nah it isn't working sorry. It's the mustache that gets me every time - Al-T.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:06 pm

I mentioned a gambling tournament in the last thread and following some good feedback from Nameless I've come up with the following second draft (which I suspect he will still hate, but there you go...).

Suggestions for improvement welcome, consideration for a slot would be good.

Edit: Rules simplified slightly following comments from Metro, still not the finished product.

Gamblers Anonymous (Mini)

Oh dear, your Sunday night dice game has been discovered and you're in big trouble. The punishment for gambling is banishment under gaes and you have been sent to the far east with little more than the clothes you are wearing and a collection of magical containers which you must attempt to fill before you can return home, hopefully having learnt your lesson.

Setup
1a) Must be played with the latest version of ES that can be found here: http://homepage3.nifty.com/miyoshino/es/es3top.htm.

1b) Create a new character SC or HC. You have up to 3 attempts that must be with different character classes. You can only have one active character. The previous character(s) have to be dead or retired.

1c) Pick a Favourite set or unique item, calculate it's value (see scoring).

Stats and Skills and Equipment
2a) There are no limitations on stat or skill assignment, reassignment is not allowed.

2b) You may not equip items with the 'Indestructible', 'Repairs 1 Durability in x seconds' or 'Replenishes Quantity' properties. Items without a stated durability (e.g. Javelins) are also banned.

2c) You may base up items, but the results may not be used in Set<>Unique conversion recipes nor score as a Favourite.

2d) No restrictions for Jewellery, charms, tinkering, D-stoning etc..

Gameplay
3a) Find treasure may not be used.

3b) Skills which cause damage to monsters may only be used if there is a physical component (i.e. you strike a monster or a monster strikes you to trigger the damage), ranged weapons, summons and spells, auras and warcries which damage enemies are banned.

3c) You must pick up all gold lying on the ground, if you don't have room you must return to town to make room, you may never drop gold.

3d) Do not Esc, Save and Exit option to escape death. You can save and exit by going to town or when no monsters are around. Avoiding monsters you believe will kill you is OK, but you must attempt to kill everything else you become aware of (monsters that run away are beneath contempt and may be ignored).

3e) Rerunning of areas is allowed with the following restrictions (which do not apply on first run through):
* Cows and areas with fixed layouts (e.g. Tristram) must be completely cleared
* Players with map regeneration turned off are required to clear any area they deliberately re-enter
* A player may always return to the previous act to their current one but may only return to earlier acts than that for the purpose of visiting special areas

3f) You must not deliberately degrade your armour by not fighting back whilst being attacked by a monster. You must fight back, using a servicable weapon (barehand is not allowed). If your weapon wears out completely you must switch to your spare and replace it as soon as is safe.

In Town
4a) You may talk to anybody in town and accept any freebie but you may only spend money in the Gambling Screen (gambling chits are not allowed, no repairs, no potions, no gem purchases etc.). The sole exception to this is that you may purchase a complete set of stockers and a can opener from Gheed.

4b) You must keep track of money gambled by either:
* Noting the value of each gamble, rounding up to the nearest thousand or
* Noting the available cash at the start of the gambling session and subtracting the available cash at the end, rounding up to the nearest thousand (you need not track the value of junk gambled items sold back using this method but the value of items worth 10,000 gold or more should be accounted for).

4c) Mercenaries are not allowed.

4d) Un-twinked characters only. You can mule off, but beyond the starting containers nothing comes in.

4e) You may only use page 1 of your personal stash.

Game End
5a) Death is final, anything in your possession at the time of death may be scored (except gold, which never makes it back to camp).

5b) Your gaes is satisfied and you must retire immediately when you enter town with a Money score of 500.

5c) You may retire at any time.

Scoring
6a) Favourite - nominate a unique or set item, multiply the Durability by the Required Level and divide by 100, rounding down. Score this each time you reduce the durability of one of these items to zero. (Example Hacker (Unique Naga) has durability 60 and required level 48 giving a score of 60x48=2880/100=28). Items which have been base converted will not count for scoring. (no max).

6b) Stocker Fillers - score 2 points for each item present in a stocker (max 400 or so), rune upgrade/downgrade, scroll reroll etc. are all allowed.

6c) Money - One point per 100,000 gold gambled, stashed or in hand (max 500).

=====================================================================
=====================================================================

Edits:

1) Removed the following rules, renumbered:

1b) Set the gamble filter to show (as a minimum) at least one weapon type, all armour types plus your class specific items.

1c) Map regeneration (ES Preferences) is preferred, but not required (see rerunning in gameplay).

1e) Mule in the following (empty) items:
* Gem can
* Can-opener
* Multi-stocker
* Scroll Holders x2
* Rune Stocker x2
* Decal Stocker
* Crystal holder
If you cannot mule in items you may purchase them as the sole exception to rule 4a.

1g) Update the thread with your character details and nominated Favourite item.

2) Originals of modified rules:
4a) You may talk to anybody in town and accept any freebie but you may only spend money in the Gambling Screen (gambling chits are not allowed, no repairs, no potions, no gem purchases etc.).

6a) Favourite - nominate a unique or set item, multiply the Durability by the Required Level and divide by 100, rounding down. Score this each time you reduce the durability of one of these items to zero. (Example Iceblink (Unique Splint Mail) has durability 30 and required level 15 to give a score of 30x15=450/100=4 each time you wear one out; Hacker (Unique Naga) has durability 60 and required level 48 giving a score of 60x48=2880/100=28 but it will be harder to get hold of.) Items which have been base converted will not count for scoring. (no max).

6b) Stocker Fillers - score for dropped items only as follows (scoring each item only once):
* Gems/Skulls: 2 points for Chipped/Flawed/Standard/Flawless/Blemished/Perfect for each type (max 96)
* Multi-stocker: 2 points for Ancient Decipherer, Dragon Stone, each organ, flag, steak, cookbook (dropped), Red Ancient Coupon, Silver Ancient Coupon, Gold Ancient Coupon, Socket Donut, Rejuve Pot (max 40)
* Scrolls: 2 points each scroll (max 100)
* Runes: 2 points each rune (max 92)
* Decals: 2 points each decal (max 66)
* Crystals: 2 points each type (max 24)
Last edited by czg on Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Peterpan » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:35 pm

Is there anyway to condense it?

Very cool idea, but it seems too... complex.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:19 am

I gotta agree with Will, Chris. The proposed ruleset looks nice — you did a fine job of designing it, but the sheer amount of text and complexity of the scoring system is simply too much for a Mini. My first suggestion is to rename Setup as Rules. And then just list the essential rules. Eliminate all of the large yellow subsections that are part of the rules. And then have a scoring section also, but try and simplify the scoring. There needs to be a bare minimum of math involved or else you're just going to scare off players.

EDIT: After taking a shower and mulling over your tourney again, Chris, the main problem I see overall is one of focus. The tourney is titled Gambler's Anonymous. Fine. The tourney should totally focus on gambling. Every aspect of it — all scoring components. The whole durability and Stocker stuff I think is what is clouding it up — for me at least.

EDIT 2: Chris I had another idea. And with this idea you could possibly integrate Durability and the Gambling theme and maybe call the event...Blood Raven's Durable Gambler Challenge. Here's the idea:

Gambling only. No buying off the shelf items.

Melee skills only. No mercs.

Act I Normal only. Blood Raven's Workshop is off limits until the test.

Characters prepare their gear for maximum durability. Unlimited rerunning of non-BRW areas.

Once a player decides to do the test they do a full repair of their high-durability equipment and enter BRW at /players 1 and do one full clear.

The player that spends the least amount of gold to repair all gear after the full clear wins.
Last edited by Metropolis Man on Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:20 am

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407374"]try and simplify the scoring. There needs to be a bare minimum of math involved or else you're just going to scare off players. [...] The tourney should totally focus on gambling. Every aspect of it — all scoring components. The whole durability and Stocker stuff I think is what is clouding it up — for me at least.[/quote]

Given that gambling is the only use a player has for money I'd say that was pretty focussed !

6a - Beyond the initial math of working out what your favourite item is worth there's very little accounting here, the component is gambling related because you're probably going to spend most of your gold gambling for whatever your Favourite is (a weapon in all probability).

6b - Not at all related to gambling, but the component which encourages game progress to get the things that drop later on. Thinking about it I'm happy to say 2 points per item type in a stocker and allow players to use 2>1 conversions etc. to improve this. - I will edit my post to this effect.

6c - I enjoyed the cutthroat competition but the farming for coupons went on too long, what I was looking for here was something which would bring the game to an end, finished or not. I also thought of saying 50 gambles per act or perhaps 10 gambling sessions per act. I accept that the current math is nasty but Nameless pointed out that my original idea of using the killcounter wasn't workable. Alternative suggestions are very welcome.

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407374"]Characters prepare their gear for maximum durability.[/quote]

Can you even do that, it isn't something I thought possible?

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407374"]Blood Raven's Durable Gambler Challenge[/quote]

I was looking for a tournament which would test a player's ability to progress with really ropey equipment - this suggestion might work - but it isn't what I'm after.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Chris, another issue with your proposed tourney is you want this to be a Mini, right? Well, Minis are scheduled as short, less-than 2 month events. And yet you've got things in your event, like the points for high scrolls, high runes, and high Decals, that would make a players push through Hell to obtain those.

Minis are traditionally Normal only. And many players even prefer a limitation for Minis to the first Act, or Act II. That's why I offered my suggestion of a durability test with a BRW run.

If you really want this to be a Mini, then it still needs to be boiled down quite a bit. Then edits you made to the rules seem like a step in the right direction.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:42 pm

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407411"]Chris, another issue with your proposed tourney is you want this to be a Mini, right? Well, Minis are scheduled as short, less-than 2 month events. And yet you've got things in your event, like the points for high scrolls, high runes, and high Decals, that would make a players push through Hell to obtain those.

Minis are traditionally Normal only. And many players even prefer a limitation for Minis to the first Act, or Act II. That's why I offered my suggestion of a durability test with a BRW run.

If you really want this to be a Mini, then it still needs to be boiled down quite a bit. Then edits you made to the rules seem like a step in the right direction.
[/quote]

Metro, I'm assuming mini because of the time limited nature of the challenge (the combination of forced gold collection, forced gambling and the Gaes Gamble score in this iteration), while I'm sure many players will get to nightmare I'd be impressed by anyone who got very far in hell given the inability to make uber equipment. That said there's no reason why you couldn't tweak the gamble score a little and call it a major.

BTW: Can you increase an item's durability? I'd want to ban that...

Anyhow I've tweaked a bit further to produce rules v0.4:

Gamblers Anonymous (Mini/Major?)

Oh dear, your Sunday night dice game has been discovered and you're in big trouble. The punishment for gambling is banishment under gaes and you have been sent to the far east with little more than the clothes you are wearing and you can't return home until you've gambled 100 unique items, hopefully having learnt your lesson.

Rules
* Use the latest version of ES.
* Un-twinked SC or HC characters only, muling off is allowed.
* Three tries allowed with different character classes, starting a new character retires any existing one.
* Do not Esc, Save and Exit option to escape death. You can save and exit by going to town or when no monsters are around.
* Weapon switch pre-buffing not allowed.
* Mercenaries are not allowed.
* No limitations to stat or skill placement but reassignment is not allowed.
* Find treasure may not be used.
* Only Melee skills can be used, ranged weapons, summons and spells, auras and warcries which damage enemies are all banned.
* Rerunning allowed, full area clears only, once you leave an act you may only return to do special areas or visit town.
* You may not equip items with the 'Indestructible', 'Repairs 1 Durability in x seconds' or 'Replenishes Quantity' properties.
* No restrictions for Jewellery, charms, tinkering, D-stoning etc..
* Item re-roll is only allowed for items which have never been used.
* You must pick up all gold, you must return to town when your gold in hand reaches 1,000,000, you may not leave town while your gold tally exceeds 1,000,000 (stash + in hand), you may never drop gold.
* You may talk to anybody in town and accept any freebie but you may only spend money in the Gambling Screen (gambling chits are not allowed, no repairs, no potions, no gem purchases etc.). The sole exception to this is that you may purchase a complete set of stockers and a can opener from Gheed.
* You may only use page 1 of your personal stash.
* You must retire immediately your Gaes Gamble score reaches 300.

Scoring
* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 5/10/15 for normal/exceptional/elite rares or double that for unique/set items. Limited to the best five items at each grade. Note the rerolling restriction. Maximum 300 points.

* Look What I've Got - score 2 points for each item present in a stocker. Rune upgrade/downgrade, scroll reroll etc. are all allowed. You may un-forge and un-socket as required to boost this score on death or forced retirement (make sure you have thawing potions available for un-forging). Maximum 300 or so points.

* Gaes Gamble - Three points per unique item gambled. Maximum 300 points (forced retirement on completion of gaes).
Last edited by czg on Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:59 pm

Chris, the length and complexilty of the ruleset is looking a lot more inviting. I'd want to hear feedback from other players before anything is officially scheduled. Hans/Blinn and others — please jump in and offer Chris your feedback.
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Post by Moonie » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:40 pm

Hmm, pretty exotic idea...

The problem I see is that there is no real room left score variation, means all good players will end up at the cap of your scoring components and making them open end would make the event a farm fest.
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Post by czg » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:17 pm

[quote=Moonie";p="407429"]Hmm, pretty exotic idea...

The problem I see is that there is no real room left score variation, means all good players will end up at the cap of your scoring components and making them open end would make the event a farm fest.[/quote]

I'm specifically hoping this won't be a farm fest and, finger in the air, I think 600 would be a winning score.

Why?
You have to pick up all the gold going.
You have to go back to town periodically (1 million gold is a longstop).
You must gamble (you can't leave town if you've more than a million gold).
When you gamble your 100th unique you retire, probably before you get even one purple rune.

With no repairs the only thing you can safely DStone is your rings and amulets so magic find will probably take a back seat to staying alive.

Even forging isn't a given as you have to find and store the thawing potions to remove the raw materials when it's worn out.

NB: Thinking further, I'm going to allow base up of Favourite Weapons, but they will score as their original grade.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:50 pm

Chris, I have some more clarifications:

[quote=czg";p="407426"]Metro, I'm assuming mini because of the time limited nature of the challenge (the combination of forced gold collection...[/quote]

In my opinion, forcing a character to pick up all gold is just something any tournament character is going to do anyway. Why would a tournament character not pick up all dropped gold? At least my own tourney characters do.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]...and the Gaes Gamble score in this iteration)...[/quote]

What does Gaes stand for?

[quote=czg";p="407426"]BTW: Can you increase an item's durability? I'd want to ban that...[/quote]

No you can't.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* You must pick up all gold, you must return to town when your gold in hand reaches 1,000,000...[/quote]

Does this mean that a character ONLY returns to town when their Inventory gold hits 1,000,000 gold?

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* You may only use page 1 of your personal stash.[/quote]

As far as I can tell, PC players would gain no advantage having multiple Stash pages in this event over a Mac player, so this rule is unnecessary.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]Scoring
* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 5/10/15 for normal/exceptional/elite rares or double that for unique/set items. Limited to the best five items at each grade. Note the rerolling restriction. Maximum 300 points.[/quote]

"Choose" might be a better word choice than Nominate.

It's definitely looking better and better, Chris. But, I'd like you to try and limit this to Act I only and maybe reduce the amount of points needed to force a character into retirement (i.e. 25-50 gambled Uniques, instead of 100).

Again, ideally you're looking for good participation. Whet the appetite a little bit with a small event, and if it really takes off, then we can discuss changing the format to a 5-month Major in the future.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Blinn » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:37 am

"Three tries allowed with different character classes, starting a new character retires any existing one." I think you should also mention that each character is eliminated at the first death. I know it is implied already with HC being included and all, but it's worth being really really blunt on this point I think.

I also agree with Metro about the forced gold pickup. It is in your best interest to do so, but having that rule nagging at you the entire tournament seems unnecessary. If you miss a gold pile, your loss...

A little more clarity on the 1,000,000 gold would also be nice, as Metro points out. I think you need to say that there are no restrictions on trips to town below 1,000,000 gold. Also, by "on hand" do you mean on the character including or excluding the personal stash?

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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:41 am

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"]Chris, I have some more clarifications:

[quote=czg";p="407426"]Metro, I'm assuming mini because of the time limited nature of the challenge (the combination of forced gold collection...[/quote]

In my opinion, forcing a character to pick up all gold is just something any tournament character is going to do anyway. Why would a tournament character not pick up all dropped gold? At least my own tourney characters do.[/quote]

It's quite possible to survive Act one at players 8 using only what drops (I know, I've done it). Given this and the suggestion to restrict progress to the early acts will leave players avoiding money and therefore gambling and just farming for coupons to reroll and Runes to upgrade. Exactly what I don't want, hence the forced money collection and gambling.

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"][quote=czg";p="407426"]...and the Gaes Gamble score in this iteration)...[/quote]

What does Gaes stand for?[/quote]

Sorry, old D&D term, it's a magical compulsion used as a plot device to force players to go on bizarre quests (like this one) - i'll try to think of a synonym.

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"][quote=czg";p="407426"]* You must pick up all gold, you must return to town when your gold in hand reaches 1,000,000...[/quote]

Does this mean that a character ONLY returns to town when their Inventory gold hits 1,000,000 gold?[/quote]

Absolutely not, it's just there to stop players farming indefinitely when they are one unique away from retirement.

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"][quote=czg";p="407426"]* You may only use page 1 of your personal stash.[/quote]

As far as I can tell, PC players would gain no advantage having multiple Stash pages in this event over a Mac player, so this rule is unnecessary.[/quote]

If you say so, my logic was that players would want to Forge their armour in the endgame and would collect thawing potions to remove the raw materials. Then there's the ability to hoard every unique set of armour that drops, plus 200 spare three socket weapons for your favourite runeword...

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"][quote=czg";p="407426"]Scoring
* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 5/10/15 for normal/exceptional/elite rares or double that for unique/set items. Limited to the best five items at each grade. Note the rerolling restriction. Maximum 300 points.[/quote]

"Choose" might be a better word choice than Nominate.[/quote]

OK.

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407437"]It's definitely looking better and better, Chris. But, I'd like you to try and limit this to Act I only and maybe reduce the amount of points needed to force a character into retirement (i.e. 25-50 gambled Uniques, instead of 100).

Again, ideally you're looking for good participation. Whet the appetite a little bit with a small event, and if it really takes off, then we can discuss changing the format to a 5-month Major in the future.[/quote]

I really don't want to restrict this to Act 1, the inability to repair stuff just isn't enough to make it a challenge.

Changing the cap to 25 and the gold limit to 100,000 would drasically reduce playtime and probably prevent players reaching Baal so that would be compatible with a Normal tourney - I'd be happy to do this, although I think the inability to progress might necessitate a rethink on the first scoring component.

[quote=Blinn";p="407445"]"Three tries allowed with different character classes, starting a new character retires any existing one." I think you should also mention that each character is eliminated at the first death. I know it is implied already with HC being included and all, but it's worth being really really blunt on this point I think.[/quote]

I had that in the first draft, I'll put it back.

[quote=Blinn";p="407445"]A little more clarity on the 1,000,000 gold would also be nice, as Metro points out. I think you need to say that there are no restrictions on trips to town below 1,000,000 gold. Also, by "on hand" do you mean on the character including or excluding the personal stash?[/quote]

I'll tidy up the wording but essentially I've no objection to leaving some gold in town which won't count towards forcing the player back to town but will count when they get there.
Last edited by czg on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hans » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:30 am

Chris I think the Dead End might fit in nicely with your theme.
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Post by czg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:50 pm

[quote=Hans";p="407524"]Chris I think the Dead End might fit in nicely with your theme.[/quote]

It would, possibly as a scoring component in a major, but it's probably at the wrong end of Normal for the direction the rulset is currently heading - if the gamble target is 25 I'd be highly impressed by anybody who got that far.
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Post by Metropolis Man » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:55 pm

[quote=czg";p="407595"][quote=Hans";p="407524"]Chris I think the Dead End might fit in nicely with your theme.[/quote]

It would, possibly as a scoring component in a major, but it's probably at the wrong end of Normal for the direction the rulset is currently heading - if the gamble target is 25 I'd be highly impressed by anybody who got that far.[/quote]

I agree. That's a good suggestion, Hans, but since Chris and I are trying to whittle things down to a manageable Mini, the Dead End probably isn't ideal.

Oh, Chris — I wanted to be a little more specific with you as to when your event might actually take place. It's been weeks since I had seen Viske online, but he actually popped up on the forums today. Viske is the player who is scheduled to host a Mini next, Dec 27. But, the ruleset for his Mini is still pretty sketchy and probably needs some work. I mention this because if for some reason Viske does not reappear and host his Mini, then I'll need a replacement. But, we'll just take a "wait and see" approach until then.

In the meantime, you and I (and anyone else) can try and get this Mini finalized. If Viske does host his Mini, then unfortunately, that means a pretty long wait. I also haven't seen freykin in a while, so we can try and communicate with him and the status of his Mini.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:15 am

That's OK either way, if we assume the gamble counter is being set to 25 then the only thing that might need tweaking as a result is the Favourite Weapon component as nobody's going to get an elite item and even exceptionals might be hard to come by.

I'll be around enough before Christmas to finalize the ruleset but I'm away around that time so if it does end up being the early slot then I'd need somebody to press the go button.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:04 pm

[quote=czg";p="407630"]That's OK either way, if we assume the gamble counter is being set to 25 then the only thing that might need tweaking as a result is the Favourite Weapon component as nobody's going to get an elite item and even exceptionals might be hard to come by.[/quote]

Right. I was thinking more about that rule....

[quote=czg";p="407426"]Scoring
* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 5/10/15 for normal/exceptional/elite rares or double that for unique/set items. Limited to the best five items at each grade. Note the rerolling restriction. Maximum 300 points.[/quote]

Now what comes to mind for me is...are you asking that a character swing a weapon until it completely breaks or just until the worn graphic pops up on the top right? If you're asking that a player break their weapon then that would be incredibly dangerous depending on the monsters in a given area. The character would not be able to leech at all.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407670"]Now what comes to mind for me is...are you asking that a character swing a weapon until it completely breaks or just until the worn graphic pops up on the top right? If you're asking that a player break their weapon then that would be incredibly dangerous depending on the monsters in a given area. The character would not be able to leech at all.[/quote]

I was thinking yes, after all there's always the weapon switch and you could save the nearly worn out weapons for the easier areas. That said setting the limit to five or less would be close enough I suppose. The warning fires at 20% - that isn't worn enough in my view.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:43 pm

Chris, I'd like to move forward with your Mini idea. Here are some edits I suggest to your 2nd rules post:

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* Rerunning allowed, full area clears only, once you leave an act you may only return to do special areas or visit town.[/quote]

Fine. But, let's limit this to Normal only. So, somewhere just mention that a Nightmare game cannot be started.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* You must pick up all gold, you must return to town when your gold in hand reaches 1,000,000, you may not leave town while your gold tally exceeds 1,000,000 (stash + in hand), you may never drop gold.[/quote]

I don't think any of this is even necessary since you can only spend money in the gamble screen.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* You may only use page 1 of your personal stash.[/quote]

Unnecessary.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* You must retire immediately your Gaes Gamble score reaches 300.[/quote]

Rename this bonus. And make it 100 points.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 5/10/15 for normal/exceptional/elite rares or double that for unique/set items. Limited to the best five items at each grade. Note the rerolling restriction. Maximum 300 points.[/quote]

Ban Elite equipment. And you don't need to limit this to the best 5 items because there's not much difference in durability between the lowest tier items and the highest tier items — i.e. a Hand Axe vs. a Great Axe.

EDIT: I thought about this a little more and maybe just award points for wearing out equipment simply based on its durability — i.e. 60's = 1 pt, 70's 2 pts, 80's 3 pts.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* Look What I've Got - score 2 points for each item present in a stocker. Rune upgrade/downgrade, scroll reroll etc. are all allowed. You may un-forge and un-socket as required to boost this score on death or forced retirement (make sure you have thawing potions available for un-forging). Maximum 300 or so points.[/quote]

Remove the maximum point restriction and make it 1 point for each "different" item in a stocker.

[quote=czg";p="407426"]* Gaes Gamble - Three points per unique item gambled. Maximum 300 points (forced retirement on completion of gaes).[/quote]

1 point per Unique gambled and maybe make it 200 points would force a retirement.
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by czg » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:11 pm

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407978"]Chris, I'd like to move forward with your Mini idea. Here are some edits I suggest to your 2nd rules post:[/quote]

Good news, thanks.

I've produced another draft incorporating suggestions made by you and others.

Normal: No problem.

1 page of stash: I disagree, but as a PC user I'll take the advantage on offer.

Unique Bonus: Name changed to Unique bonus, limit changed to 100, score per changed to two.

Stocker scoring component: Agreed.

Favourite Weapon: I've tweaked this one to read:

* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon with a minimum of 60 durability (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 2/4 points for normal/exceptional rares or double that for unique/set items (elites count as exceptional). Note the rerolling restriction. You may score ten normal items, and five exceptional/elite items - if all are unique the maximum score for this component is 80 (10x2x2 + 5x4x2).

[quote=Metropolis Man";p="407978"][quote=czg";p="407426"]* You must pick up all gold, you must return to town when your gold in hand reaches 1,000,000, you may not leave town while your gold tally exceeds 1,000,000 (stash + in hand), you may never drop gold.[/quote]

I don't think any of this is even necessary since you can only spend money in the gamble screen.[/quote]

This is the mechanism which forces a reluctant player to retire, without it they can collect yellow runes from the cows level whilst surviving with dropped equipment until they've enough to make all the orange, green, gold runes – a horrible farm-fest. I’ve revised the wording to make it less annoying:

* You must pick up all piles of 300 or more gold, you may not leave town while your gold tally exceeds 1,000,000 (stash + inventory). You may not drop gold.

Latest draft:

Gamblers Anonymous (Mini)

Oh dear, your Sunday night dice game has been discovered and you're in big trouble. The punishment for gambling is banishment under a spell of compulsion and you have been sent to the far east with little more than the clothes you are wearing and you can't return home until you've gambled fifty unique items, hopefully having learnt your lesson.

Rules
* Use the latest version of ES.
* Un-twinked SC or HC characters only, muling off is allowed.
* Three tries allowed with different character classes, starting a new character retires any existing one as does death.
* Do not Esc, Save and Exit option to escape death. You can save and exit by going to town or when no monsters are around.
* Weapon switch pre-buffing not allowed.
* Mercenaries are not allowed.
* No limitations to stat or skill placement but reassignment is not allowed.
* Find treasure may not be used.
* Only Melee skills can be used, ranged weapons, summons and spells, auras and warcries which damage enemies are all banned.
* Rerunning allowed, full area clears only, normal difficulty only, once you leave an act you may only return to do special areas or visit town.
* You may not equip items with the 'Indestructible', 'Repairs 1 Durability in x seconds' or 'Replenishes Quantity' properties.
* No restrictions for Jewellery, charms, tinkering, D-stoning etc..
* Item re-roll is only allowed for items which have never been used.
* You must pick up all piles of 300 or more gold, you may not leave town while your gold tally exceeds 1,000,000 (stash + inventory). You may not drop gold.
* You may talk to anybody in town and accept any freebie but you may only spend money in the Gambling Screen (gambling chits are not allowed, no repairs, no potions, no gem purchases etc.). The sole exception to this is that you may purchase a complete set of stockers and a can opener from Gheed.
* You must retire immediately your Unique Gamble score reaches 100.

Scoring
* Unique Gamble - Two points per unique item gambled. Maximum 100 points (forced retirement on satisfaction of the compulsion spell).

* Favourite Weapon - Nominate a weapon with a minimum of 60 durability (e.g. Ninja To), each time you wear out one of these completely you score 2/4 points for normal/exceptional rares or double that for unique/set items (elites count as exceptional). Note the rerolling restriction. You may score ten normal items, and five exceptional/elite items - if all are unique the maximum score for this component is 80 (10x2x2 + 5x4x2).

* Look What I've Got - score 1 point for each different item present in a stocker. Rune upgrade/downgrade, scroll reroll etc. are all allowed. You may un-forge and un-socket as required to boost this score on death or forced retirement (make sure you have thawing potions available for un-forging). No limit to this scoring component.
Chris

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Metropolis Man
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Re: Tournament Central

Post by Metropolis Man » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:51 pm

Chris — looks pretty good and almost ready to go as is. I'll check it over with a fine tooth comb after I eat dinner. Whatever you do, don't post another revision of the rules if more edits need to be made. I actually would have preferred you just editing the last one, but now you know. :)
That which does not kill us makes us stronger — Friedrich Nietzsche
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