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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:59 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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Thanks for the quick response.
Few questions if you don't mind and if you find a little bit of time to answer them I'd be glad.

- Can you or your team upload some screenies? I tried to search everywhere for archives and stuff but couldn't recover the old pictures. Maybe upload some new ones or just reupload the old ones if you guys still got'em so you don't even waste that much time. It'd be great, right now literally every link is deadz0r
- If I got your post right, the Metal Storm project is like a "Diablo 2: Enhanced" and basically not only is it a version that fixes a lot of bugs (and add some improvements from what I understand), but will also make it easier to use custom code upon the game? Or we're talking more about a "PlugY" kind of thing, where you can change some configurations and you're limited to those?

In any case, just rewriting everything to get rid of the old ass bugs it's an astonishing feat. I read almost all the logs archive and I have to say I'm quite impressed at the amount of lines you fixed/wrote (and more impressed at the amount of bugs are still in the game! like WTF).

Kudos to you and your team


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:44 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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Posting screenshots and videos is hindered by the lack of suitable* long-term host for them (and I don't want to FTP them to the Keep directly due to their quantity --- we have at the time of writing 10574 screenshots in our archives and a host of videos too).

* Services like imgur are a no-go, beside being bloated and causing memory leaks in browsers due to bad page coding they also periodically delete "unviewed" things which is counter-productive to fix the imageshack problem (as it would just constantly arise again). For videos the issue is even worse, all the popular sites re-encode videos and reduces their resolution (we did some test uploads the result were unsatisfactory which is why they never went public). The only alternative is to upload them to archive.org, but they recently {filtered} up their interface beyond redemption making the site hard to use by the sane.

---

D2Run allows any number of extension DLL's to be loaded (MetalStorm itself is loaded as an extension --- so yes this is kinda like PlugY but then again not because D2Run doesn't run Game.exe but instead replaces it completely), although this functionality isn't a priority at the moment --- they may be allowed to override aspects of the game using a provided callback table in the future.

Example from current INI:

[EXTEND]
Mod0=MetalStorm.DLL

[TWEAKS]
CPU=0

[METALSTORM]
DisableExceptionFilter=0
Seed=1965912615
ItemDescCode=1
ItemDescAverageDamage=1
ItemDescLevel=0
ItemDescAttacksPerSecond=0


EDIT: To elaborate, MetalStorm.DLL may in the future export much of its internal callback interface to other mods loaded via the [EXTEND] section (as Mod1-ModX there's no limit to how many) to plug things into --- this was kinda already the plan for Joel's SE.DLL. D2Run itself implements all the stuff the real EXE did (including the ability to load all command line options from D2.INI instead --- something not many people seem to know), with the exception of all the BNET related stuff (with which it was made incompatible by design). EXTEND-specific settings are read from an INI section named after the extension (in this case [METALSTORM] due to the library name being MetalStorm.DLL). As an aside, the settings above are incomplete because most of them have yet to be migrated into D2.ini (they currently occupy a separate file).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:48 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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Nefarius wrote:
the plural is assuming Joel stops being AWOL, otherwise there will be only one
You'll need to convince him to give up all the CPP template meta-programming presentations for that

Nefarius wrote:
and I don't want to FTP them to the Keep directly due to their quantity --- we have at the time of writing 10574 screenshots in our archives and a host of videos too
You are welcome to use the storage used to back the filecenter =)

Good to see you back in action.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:11 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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That sounds so great. I mean you are probably making everybody happy: vanilla players, mod players and modders themselves.
If you need someone to write music for the other project I can try to do something, but don't expect high quality stuff ala Matt Uelmen, lol. I posted something in the multimedia forum.
Anyway, if anybody else has a copy of the old screenies, re-upload them somewhere if you can

See ya and good luck on the progress


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:03 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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Necrolis wrote:
Nefarius wrote:
the plural is assuming Joel stops being AWOL, otherwise there will be only one
You'll need to convince him to give up all the CPP template meta-programming presentations for that

Nefarius wrote:
and I don't want to FTP them to the Keep directly due to their quantity --- we have at the time of writing 10574 screenshots in our archives and a host of videos too
You are welcome to use the storage used to back the filecenter =)

Good to see you back in action.


8-O

cool, it was because of Metalstorm that i started to learn basic coding :) i am glad to hear this

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:28 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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It would be a shame if this mod never gets its public release...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:08 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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Will there be some kind of open source API with which to write new D2Run plugins? Is the intention for Metalstorm's backing codebase (not the metalstorm plugin itself) to be a platform for other developers to work on projects?
I tried to get started on a D2Common rewriting but if this codebase already does all that, then there might not be a point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:18 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (29 May 2016)
 
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D2Run currently only requires a DLL to export a QueryInterface function, like the D2 DLL's themselves. As for a general purpose API, by the time this is done for anything to run under MetalStorm x D2Run the former will have to export the core API that used to reside in the three main DLL's, although what aspects of that we will export to other extensions will have to be decided case by case (not everything that is currently exported by the game is a general purpose API, in fact most of it is not and will crash/corrupt the game session if used out of context).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:57 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Hey Nef, I saw you made a couple changes to the AI. Are these changes locked to the default resolution or you implemented something for the next steps of resolution(s)?
I know the usual resolution mods work and all (except the black tiles bug at the edges of the screen, annoying), but the monster AI really suffers because they were not programmed for that


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:30 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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G:\Projects\MetalStorm\MonAI\AI.cpp                          LINES:      33785     BYTES:     872842


More than a couple of changes ;) There is not one instruction of the old AI code left in the game (in other words the game actually has an AI now).

---

I was the guy who loudly complained about the AI not being adjusted when the game went from 640x480 to 800x600 in 2001, so you can rest assured any such issues are taken care of. It's always nice to see someone else realizing the consequences of increasing the resolution arbitrarily however.

Though scaling the AI based on resolution is not a good choice, it may sound good on paper but it's open to abuse in multiplayer because it would scale to the host's resolution, so someone could host a game with a tiny custom resolution and then join with a second instance running at 1920x1080 to have free reign over inactive monsters, it's likewise a problem if a client joins that has a significantly lower resolution than the host, the game would become very unfair to that client given how aggressive our AI is.

The AI itself is too different from vanilla to really draw any paralells between the two, but suffice to say it is generally not as distance based and monsters will do things even if they're not in your immediate vicinity. Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer. If we chose to support custom resolutions above our maximum standard resolution (which is currently planned to be 1920x1200) we will likely introduce a Fog of War mechanic akin to the infinity engine to not reveal units that're too far away as to not give people an unfair advantage in multiplayer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:01 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Nefarius wrote:
The AI itself is too different from vanilla to really draw any paralells between the two, but suffice to say it is generally not as distance based and monsters will do things even if they're not in your immediate vicinity. Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer. If we chose to support custom resolutions above our maximum standard resolution (which is currently planned to be 1920x1200) we will likely introduce a Fog of War mechanic akin to the infinity engine to not reveal units that're too far away as to not give people an unfair advantage in multiplayer.


beautiful.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:26 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Nefarius wrote:
Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer..


IMHO this idea is not good if the lower monster quantity will damage the feeling of hack-and-slash gameplay. Fighting in a map which is full of enemies using aoe skills (which is d2&3 is all about) is better than fighting in maps with few mobs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:54 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Xibalba wrote:
Nefarius wrote:
Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer..


IMHO this idea is not good if the lower monster quantity will damage the feeling of hack-and-slash gameplay. Fighting in a map which is full of enemies using aoe skills (which is d2&3 is all about) is better than fighting in maps with few mobs.


I think you are not giving it enough thought. Mindlessly clicking buttons and killing stuff is the worst form of gameplay there is and the only reason why ppl cant see that is because its what they have been taught. Generally whatever is being done mindlessly isnt good.
In a game where killing one monster matters, when you will use an AOE to kill a group of 4-5 monsters will also matter. So both single and multi target skills be more meaningful and you will use them depending on the situation you are in.

In nature nothing is stable, everything is in a constant proccess of evolution/revolution. Whatever is bad and has no use is slowly being left back and forgotten. Same applies to games and everything else.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:59 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Xibalba wrote:
Nefarius wrote:
Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer..


IMHO this idea is not good if the lower monster quantity will damage the feeling of hack-and-slash gameplay. Fighting in a map which is full of enemies using aoe skills (which is d2&3 is all about) is better than fighting in maps with few mobs.


+1 , Diablo 2 in a nutshell. +That distance thingy concerns me even more. Oh well ...
PS.For me personally diablo is about loot hunting , upgrading , surviving. Being zoned by a swarm of mobs backing up and killing them slow is something that Im used to. Howerver mods or somewhat of mods without a population , "density" is tedious , slow , feels unrewarding.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:29 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Doub wrote:
Xibalba wrote:
Nefarius wrote:
Beyond this we believe that quality beats quantity when it comes to monster encounters so we focus on fewer but more interesting encounters which also serves as an equalizer..


IMHO this idea is not good if the lower monster quantity will damage the feeling of hack-and-slash gameplay. Fighting in a map which is full of enemies using aoe skills (which is d2&3 is all about) is better than fighting in maps with few mobs.


I think you are not giving it enough thought. Mindlessly clicking buttons and killing stuff is the worst form of gameplay there is and the only reason why ppl cant see that is because its what they have been taught. Generally whatever is being done mindlessly isnt good.
In a game where killing one monster matters, when you will use an AOE to kill a group of 4-5 monsters will also matter. So both single and multi target skills be more meaningful and you will use them depending on the situation you are in.

In nature nothing is stable, everything is in a constant proccess of evolution/revolution. Whatever is bad and has no use is slowly being left back and forgotten. Same applies to games and everything else.


There're a lot of things that flow into this and you touch on a very important point, and one that's been a thorn in our eyes for years. The game in its present form has an extremely low skill ceiling and our aim from the start was to change that, more difficult (by which I mean actually difficult, not the typical breed of damage sponge enemies with ridiculous amounts of health but no AI American game designers are so enamoured by) and interesting encounters that are actually fun to fight and rewarding to defeat are one way to go about this and the one we will pursue. We thrive on difficulty, we don't thrive on conditioned routine induced by artificial tedium (giving something 1000 % more health than it ought to have doesn't, and never has, made anything more difficult or challenging --- just more tedious and time consuming and ultimately boring and pointless, the same applies to spawning 100 rather than 10 creatures in a mob if they pose zero threat).

---

To the second point, the hack'n'slash feeling of D2 was already damaged beyond repair in 2001 when Blizzard turned it into a testing ground for WoW mechanics, ultimately culminating in 1.10+'s unrewarding and self-perpetuating trudge where everything that was once fun about the game has been nerfed to oblivion (yes, even the loot despite all the new and shiny stuff --- finding a couple of preset unique items after killing the same trash for the nth time in LoD has never been as rewarding as unearthing a great rare item you just happen to stumble upon in 1.00-1.06) either directly or indirectly with a handful of things being scaled to the high heavens persumably because one of their devs liked playing those builds. No, we intend to bring the pace and feel of the game closer to its original vision and the game we loved in 2000-2001 (more Diablo, a lot less WoW).

---

PS: Perhaps I should elaborate that we don't intend to turn the game into a desert devoid of (enemy) life which seems to be what was construed from what I posted there, what I'm talking about is the difference between encountering a mob that contains 10+ enemies that're all completely unthreatening, extremely slow and ultimately boring grind fodder to one that's composed of 5-6 enemies that're actually going to react to your existance and actions, fight you and try to survive themselves.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:57 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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This sounds really good, I must say.
I came here to learn something about modding D2. Can't write my own game, so a mod for D2 might be an idea.
However, I then stumbled upon this, and it sounds so great.
I come from Path of Exile, which I really like - one thing I do not like there, however, is the imperative of AoE. It's exactly like you described in the previous post: hordes of enemies that die in an instant and pose no thread (although then there are those, mostly bosses, that kill you faster than you can say AoE spam).

Glad to see, too, that some people are still working on D2.:D
Thanks for your effort so far (and, after a short glance, a whole lot that you have done for D2 modding).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:28 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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@Nefarius
Keep it up. Your approach is the best. You are giving meaning to a meaningless gameplay and if you want any ideas on what kind of stats, skills and AI a monster or a boss should have i would gladly give ideas.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:05 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Awesome. I've been in this Forum a few years ago and i always checked for metalstorm. im happy to see you still work on that. some People said its gonna be like every other never released mod, but its 2016 and my hopes are still up.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:43 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Almost 9 years have passed, it's almost 2017 and we still have no release date :/ even a single screenshot! It would be the biggest disappointment of modding history if mod wont get released. We are still waiting, say something guys, please!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:09 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Screenshot please!
I wouldn't mind if you zip them and upload to some website. Just that would make my year worthwhile!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:54 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Welcome to project Titan - aka. if only blizzard knew there are projects that take longer than Titan or Diablo 3.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:05 am 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Can someone explain what this mod is about?

You write so much text yet there's not a summary in the beginning, a few sentences to explain what's what. The only thing I can say is that I'm excited, because there was a (relatively) recent post and many people here are also exited, so that's good at least :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:26 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Xibalba wrote:
Almost 9 years have passed, it's almost 2017 and we still have no release date :/ even a single screenshot! It would be the biggest disappointment of modding history if mod wont get released. We are still waiting, say something guys, please!


Im going to bump this thread by quoting my own post.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:55 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Xibalba wrote:
Xibalba wrote:
Almost 9 years have passed, it's almost 2017 and we still have no release date :/ even a single screenshot! It would be the biggest disappointment of modding history if mod wont get released. We are still waiting, say something guys, please!


Im going to bump this thread by quoting my own post.


It's 2017 and we still dont have a Metalstorm release, lol :D Gonna keep bumping the topic i guess...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:35 pm 
 Post subject: Re: MetalStorm Progress Report (28 June 2016)
 
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Don't mind me. I'm just wondering when will the next changelog be posted. It's been 1 year since the last time...


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