[FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by Old Ghost » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:15 pm

OK, let me just go ahead and put it out there on the table ...what everyone else is apparently side-stepping to say:

BRING ON THE PAGANHEART 1.0!!! :lol:

The entire Diablo Community has been waiting patiently, accepting the fact that PH needed a well deserved vacation, but it's time to get back to the main event here -- *laughs*

Everyone that visits this forum knows they want it...
Everyone that plays this MOD from every corner of the planet knows they have to have it...

The only question remaining here friends: "Will the ghost of Marius ever rest in peace?"

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by Verbatim » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:11 pm

I really hope you'll make at least one change before abandoning this mod:

We need a socketing recipie, especially considering that all runewords are two or three letters long. When you mentioned that there isn't one, a couple people said Larzuk would be enough, but Larzuk always gives the max sockets possible for the item you give him, which means 4, 5 or 6 sockets in just about all elite items. That's pretty much worthless, given the current runeword system, so we need a recipie that gives a random number of sockets. Besides, what are we supposed to use the nice disenchanting recipie you gave us for without one?

I haven't seen much in the way of bugs (currently at A5 WSK norm), though I did find a ring "of frost bolt" with xx lvl 1 charges of Frozen Servant.

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by erevos » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:22 pm

Well... i really like to see this mod continued so i was wondering do u need new ideas to continue;

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by Vhaeghar » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:49 pm

i'm still here.... admittedly not that often but hey, i give it a quick run through every week or so ~_^

edit: i've found a few of my newest batch of set items... god i love finding me own stuff =)
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Post by Phrozen Heart » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:34 pm

Well submit some more then and maybe we can eventually get this junker up and running again ;)
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by Talol Padaes » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:27 pm

I must say, Renbuu's Artistic Longing's is a VERY nice low-level set... I equipped it onto an Amazon, and was working through the underground passge, when all of the sudden, I had a Casting Blitzkreig. I think every 'On Striking' effect on the set went off at once. It was a most impressive sight to behold. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by cc » Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:56 pm

To get some sort of discussion up and going in here again and to remind Phrozen that there are still some of us out here praying that v1.0 gets released before mankind gets eradicated by small furry animals, I thought I'd post some of my thoughts about tempered items.

While I watched the modifiers on my gloves grow to insane values, I decided that it should be made a bit harder to get all those ingredients. I mean the frequency they drop in normal places is ok, but Underdark lvl10 is too much. The amount might be appropriate for the fighting you have to do in hell, but even doing a small amount of runs in normal with a high lvl char will leave you with enough reagents to fill several pages of cube space. If possible I'd like to see a scale in drop rates among the difficulties.

The second thing is: tempering items is strong. Tempering socketed items is gross. I mean it's absurd to temper any sockable item without using socketed base items. And with the modifiers granted by elite gems and runes, I think that tempering socketed items shouldn't be allowed. It simply adds too much to result in even remotely balanced items.

Thoughts about it? Petitions to get me removed from here? Whishes for christmas?
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by theonlymoose » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:09 pm

Merry Christmas to all!!! :mrgreensanta:

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by johnyod » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:22 am

Go for the eyes Boo!

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by onyx » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:14 pm

[quote=johnyod";p="256256"]Go for the eyes Boo![/quote]

And how does that contribute to the discussion in the thread?

Please, avoid useless posts in the future, thanks in advance.
Last edited by onyx on Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by theonlymoose » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:49 pm

Refer to this post Onyx, maybe you'll get what he meant when he said - go for the eyes boo.

viewtopic.php?p=221764&highlight=eyes+boo#221764

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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by Phrozen Heart » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:46 pm

[quote=Talol Padaes";p="247687"]I must say, Renbuu's Artistic Longing's is a VERY nice low-level set... I equipped it onto an Amazon, and was working through the underground passge, when all of the sudden, I had a Casting Blitzkreig. I think every 'On Striking' effect on the set went off at once. It was a most impressive sight to behold. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:[/quote]
lol yep another triumph of one of the mod's "deputies" ;)

[quote=cc";p="252690"]To get some sort of discussion up and going in here again and to remind Phrozen that there are still some of us out here praying that v1.0 gets released before mankind gets eradicated by small furry animals, I thought I'd post some of my thoughts about tempered items.[/quote]
Stranger things have happened...

[quote=cc";p="252690"]While I watched the modifiers on my gloves grow to insane values, I decided that it should be made a bit harder to get all those ingredients. I mean the frequency they drop in normal places is ok, but Underdark lvl10 is too much. The amount might be appropriate for the fighting you have to do in hell, but even doing a small amount of runs in normal with a high lvl char will leave you with enough reagents to fill several pages of cube space. If possible I'd like to see a scale in drop rates among the difficulties. [/quote]
That's very possible and fairly simple to do. Anyone else have thoughts on that? 25% of the rate on normal, 50% on NM? Maybe 33% and 66%?

[quote=cc";p="252690"]The second thing is: tempering items is strong. Tempering socketed items is gross. I mean it's absurd to temper any sockable item without using socketed base items. And with the modifiers granted by elite gems and runes, I think that tempering socketed items shouldn't be allowed. It simply adds too much to result in even remotely balanced items.[/quote]
Agreed, I think I nailed that from my test version but if not I will be shortly.

[quote=johnyod";p="256256"]Go for the eyes Boo![/quote]
So I'm assuming you're roadtesting everyone's favorite minature giant space hamster? He was always funny to unleash in the easier parts of the Underdark.

[quote=onyx";p="256326"]And how does that contribute to the discussion in the thread?

Please, avoid useless posts in the future, thanks in advance.[/quote]
Yep probably should elaborate on this one more next time.
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Post by Ulthrion » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:09 pm

I truely have to disagree with the overpowering of tempered socketed items. My paladin has a tempered 3-socketed helm/crown that I've used for quite some time now because I though that it would be very powerful as you suggested, however, the thing is that the uniques for helms (and the same goed for shields/armours/weapons, i.e. the things that can be socketed) have far better uniques than the ones that cannot be socketed (belts, boots, gloves). As a result, I now have a few very cool and good helmets lying around which I can't use because my own helm is tempered (and thus better), but I'm still using relatively crappy gloves, because the unique gloves are just not nearly as interesting as the unique helmets.

What I'm trying to say is: Even though you combine the ability to use sockets and tempering at the same time, you're also missing out on some of the better unique and set items that the game has to offer, which more than compensates for the increased power.

In all honesty, if I could trade in my helm for tempered gloves without any base modifiers, but with the same tempering bonusses and reagents added as I have in my helmet, I would definately do it. My advice to anyone: Don't be lured in with the idea of great powerful items, because you'll be missing out on a lot of cool other items as well.

As for the reagent drops: I think that 33% in normal and 66% in nightmare (or something around that region) would do the trick. Remember that nightmare is still pretty tough especially in level 10.

One final thing: The greater mindflayers in level 10 don't seem to cause any damage on me when I use ranged attacks. All they ever do is curse me. Once I get up close they start dishing out nasty damage etc. but with my sorceress I don't feel nearly as much damage as with my paladin. Was this intentional? Because the only thing that balances them out is the fact that there are other creatures around that can do damage. In one of my runs I had the right-hand side of the 10th level with only greater mindflayers and I only took a few damage from the charged bolt that they released when my merc attacked them.

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Post by Phrozen Heart » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:50 pm

[quote=Ulthrion";p="257021"]I truely have to disagree with the overpowering of tempered socketed items. My paladin has a tempered 3-socketed helm/crown that I've used for quite some time now because I though that it would be very powerful as you suggested, however, the thing is that the uniques for helms (and the same goed for shields/armours/weapons, i.e. the things that can be socketed) have far better uniques than the ones that cannot be socketed (belts, boots, gloves). As a result, I now have a few very cool and good helmets lying around which I can't use because my own helm is tempered (and thus better), but I'm still using relatively crappy gloves, because the unique gloves are just not nearly as interesting as the unique helmets.

What I'm trying to say is: Even though you combine the ability to use sockets and tempering at the same time, you're also missing out on some of the better unique and set items that the game has to offer, which more than compensates for the increased power.

In all honesty, if I could trade in my helm for tempered gloves without any base modifiers, but with the same tempering bonusses and reagents added as I have in my helmet, I would definately do it. My advice to anyone: Don't be lured in with the idea of great powerful items, because you'll be missing out on a lot of cool other items as well.[/quote]
Okay fair points, now not quite sure the best course of action...

[quote=Ulthrion";p="257021"]As for the reagent drops: I think that 33% in normal and 66% in nightmare (or something around that region) would do the trick. Remember that nightmare is still pretty tough especially in level 10.[/quote]
Sounds like a plan.

[quote=Ulthrion";p="257021"]One final thing: The greater mindflayers in level 10 don't seem to cause any damage on me when I use ranged attacks. All they ever do is curse me. Once I get up close they start dishing out nasty damage etc. but with my sorceress I don't feel nearly as much damage as with my paladin. Was this intentional? Because the only thing that balances them out is the fact that there are other creatures around that can do damage. In one of my runs I had the right-hand side of the 10th level with only greater mindflayers and I only took a few damage from the charged bolt that they released when my merc attacked them.

Farseer Ulthrion[/quote]
Well yeah the idea originally was to have them as the "cursebots" while the others do the actual damage but as it is the last level it should probably have something else to spice it up. I wonder what a high level nova or chain lightning on death might do? That way you'd have to choose between leaving them alive and enduring the curses or killing them and taking the death skills. Maybe each could come with a pack of thrall minions that could dish out the damage? I'm open to suggestions but if left to my own devices I'll probably come up with something overly mean :twisted:
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by cc » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:29 pm

[quote=Ulthrion";p="257021"]What I'm trying to say is: Even though you combine the ability to use sockets and tempering at the same time, you're also missing out on some of the better unique and set items that the game has to offer, which more than compensates for the increased power.[/quote]
I'd put myself out of the window and say: the amount of power you get by tempering a well chosen base item with sockets will be greater than any combination of socketable unique with non-socketable tempered item. I mean look at two examples:
Sorceress orb: You can basically get yourself an orb with +3skills, some automods and heaven forbid a good second mod, give it two sockets with Larzuk, and temper it. With the amount of oskills from runes and the huge boni from gems that weapon will not be matched by any unique. I mean, put a conviction rune in that thing and I'll take a naked sorc through hell with it.
Non char specific: Helms: Get yourself a +2skills circlet of the char you play, 3sockets as second modifier and temper. That flexibility of the large amount of sockets, combined with the amount of different mods you get from reagents/runes, will be unmatched by any fixed combination of mods on uniques.
Now putting into the picture that tempering such items will mean you have to use unique gloves that are by comparison a tad weaker than the helm/weapon unique you would be using had you tempered your gloves. Uniques can have only 1 socket. Can you explain to me how big that difference must be to make up for losing 2-3 sockets? That's e.g. over 140% magic find you will lose. That's one good blocking summon you won't have, because you can't socket the rune giving you Fire Golem anymore. The amount of reagents available, leaves only a select few mods that you can't get because they are not available as magic modifiers. But I can think of none that would bridge that power gap.

[quote=Phrozen Heart";p="257026"]Well yeah the idea originally was to have them as the "cursebots" while the others do the actual damage but as it is the last level it should probably have something else to spice it up. I wonder what a high level nova or chain lightning on death might do? That way you'd have to choose between leaving them alive and enduring the curses or killing them and taking the death skills. Maybe each could come with a pack of thrall minions that could dish out the damage? I'm open to suggestions but if left to my own devices I'll probably come up with something overly mean :twisted:[/quote]
Hm, they shot quite a few charged bolts at me, even as a Sorceress, your minions will soon put them into thinking they are fighting a melee fight. Didn't experience them as pure curesbots. Nova wouldn't be fair, because you would be hurting melee only and chain lightning makes me think of how much I'm hating the normal lightning from the mindflayers on lvl6 already. Minions sounds nice. If you want a death skill, I would go for something like the chaos orb from Assassin's phoenix strike charge 3 or plain old Sorceress frozen orb.
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Post by Ulthrion » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:45 pm

I think that leaving the psionic mindflayers alive is never really an option as their damage up-close (or at least, it seems like they are doing some damage up close, it could be all from the charged bolt though) is pretty hefty as it is. In fact, it's one of the few damages that I actually feel with my paladin (as in, they can dish it out faster than my spirit essence can heal it). As for combat characters, they are already pretty hefty to deal with.

Some minions sounds nice though. A random mix of minotaurs (to add physical immunity to level 10) or svirneblin would do the trick I think. My personal choice would be the minotaurs because they seem to be doing more damage than the svirneblin. In addition, their lower life expectancy compared to the svirneblin can be somewhat countered by the curse that the mindflayers are throwing out.
Adding 1 or 1-2 minotaurs for every mindflayers seems like a cool idea, but the number of mindflayers would probably have to drop for this (which is too bad, as they are the ones with the great drops).

Just for reference, the things (from the top of my head) that seem to have a chance against my paladin at the moment are (just so you know which enemies are good at defeating high defence, high resistances and high life):
- Sentient Slimes (IF they hit, they tend to do some nasty damage)
- Umberhulks (probably because they are alive long enough to hit me at some point)
- Minotaurs (If they get double swing going, they can be pretty nasty if they gang up on you)
- Mind flayers (enough damage to neutralize my healing with potions, although they are generally only scary when there are other thralls around)
- Extra strong extra fast svirneblin (extra strong does it nicely, but with extra fast they tend to hit more obviously).
- Belhifet + daemons (I fear them much more than the last pack, but not really that much actually. Occasionally the mods that they spawn with do some nice damage. Fanatacism aura anyone?).
- Anything in act 4/5 and the underdark that spawns fire + lightning enchanted (due to the bug, no point in naming it really)
- The daemon prince in an act 5 portal (forgot which one and his name. Main source of his damage is his MASSIVE life + fire enchanted makes for an enormous corpse explosion).
- Drow in level 9 and 10 (probably because of the cursebots and the decent amount with which they come)
- Psionic mindflayers (with their close attack and/or charged bolt release on hit, whichever it way be).
- Drizz't + gang (if he wasn't present, something would be wrong I guess).

Note that for spellcasters these might be pretty easy enemies. I don't know as my sorceress isn't that strong yet.

Other than that, nothing seems to be able to do any real damage on my paladin with the exception of the rare occasion where I suffer multiple hits (which is pretty rare considering 27K+ defence and 75% block chance).
On the other hand, I don't really dish out damage very fast either (as I have to click on every enemy that I want to kill ... no mass destruction makes everything pretty slow here).

EDIT: I found a bug: The skill Armageddon from the druid lists Fissure as it's synergy skill as giving +2 seconds duration per skillpoint. When you place a skillpoint in fissure however, the listed duration of armageddon only goes up by 1 second.

Farseer Ulthrion
Last edited by Ulthrion on Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by boldie » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:36 pm

[found bug] on act v, frigid highlands, The ruins of spellhold, when you finally get to the golden chest most of the items are on the other side of the chest which because of terrain you cannot have access to :cry:

acorn and the sundial are my reagents that have no image to them.

the act v raptor thing doesnt effect my barbarian, so it might be your armour mate :-|

you should tweak the crowbar so you dont loose your gems/runes when used, i never socket things unless i can get my stuff back because then what happens if i find something better 8-O

well i havent played any previous version before 9.55 but i like the changes made to the game and its made it much easier for me to progress. so far i only didnt like the monsters in the frigid highlands (just dont suit the place) but thats my opinion. i gotta find this underdark everyone talks about, then figuire out what to do with my reagents...

(edit)

[another bug]

on a barbarian when i use berserk as a skill the damage on the character display says 0 - 1, the attack rating is normal and it does actually do more then 0-1 damage as it kills dudes.

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Last edited by boldie on Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by cc » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:19 pm

[quote=Ulthrion";p="233347"]One thing that PH and the underdark in particular learns is to never put your eggs in one basket. [...]. Always make sure that you have multiple ways of dealing damage. In general, make sure that you can dish out at much different elements of damage as possible.
Farseer Ulthrion[/quote]
This statement seems to be the conclusion of every discussion about how to succed in this mod. When I think about the seven chars, I always end up with something I don't feel really comfortable about. The barbarian. I haven't played one through hell yet or even entered the underdark with one, but every skill he has is either pure phyiscal damage enhancing or pure magic damage. So he is maxed at two kinds of damage and one of those is, while offering high damage, pretty narrow in use. Is that enough to be on an equal footing with the other classes in this mod or is some enhancement of a skill with elemental damage boni or something similar needed? Just wanted to hear some opinions about it, I can't really make up my mind. In the Showcase-thread there is a post mentioning a lvl82 barbarian in hell act3, but I didn't find any other comments about him in e.g. the new special areas in act5 or the hell underdark.

[quote=boldie";p="260581"]acorn and the sundial are my reagents that have no image to them.[/quote]
Had a similar problem once, solved it by reinstalling the last couple of patches, seems to be some kind of error resulting of missing one minor patch or something similar.

[quote=boldie";p="260581"]you should tweak the crowbar so you dont loose your gems/runes when used, i never socket things unless i can get my stuff back because then what happens if i find something better 8-O [/quote]
I'd have to disagree. Investment and the power granted by it should come at a cost and not be available for endless reconsideration.

[quote=boldie";p="260581"]i gotta find this underdark everyone talks about, then figuire out what to do with my reagents...[/quote]
Underdark is a cave area in act1. It's outside the Outer Cloister in the Tamo Highlands (at least that's how the areas are called in vanilla, I always forget which area is still called the same and where names have been changed)
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Post by boldie » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:14 am

well no comments made about a barbarian, i think that is because they cant do it. im around lvl 33 and do 150 - 300 damage with 50 fire damage and other small elemental, and i cant even get any of the underdark explored. i remember on nez when i completed nightmare and got past half of hell, and then i managed to complete the kagero, which in this case would be the underdark... i think a barbarian relies moslty on the weapon to dish out elemental damage, apart from berserk which worked nicely in the underdark but still took alot of damage from mushroom freaks :-|
the barbarian is my fave character but i always get stuck on elemental damagers or physical immune freaks.

ah well ive figuered a way to get my stuff back so the crowbar doesnt need fixing ;)

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Post by Verbatim » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:02 am

FYI on the crowbar, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to make a recipie that would give you your socketables back...there's just no way to do anything with the socketables in an item except destroy them, using the commands you have for making cube recipies. Even if you could somehow interact with an item in a socket, a cube recipie can only have up to three outputs, so at most, you'd be able to return the item and two of the socketables.

Maybe someone who does CE could find the code that's run when the 'uns' (unsocket) parameter is used in a recipie, and try to hard-code returning the socketables, but I doubt it'd be easy, even for someone who's good at that kind of thing.

From what I've read, level 33 would be a bit low for trying to complete the underdark, even in norm, though it's been said that you should be able to finish up to lvl. 6 after you beat Baal...I've seen lvl 65+/end of NM as the time you can first finish norm underdark, so all is not lost yet...though I do expect you're right that it's hard to play a barb in this mod, since they only have one tool for dealing with PIs, and a rather risky one at that.

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Post by Phrozen Heart » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:19 pm

[quote=Verbatim";p="260691"]FYI on the crowbar, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to make a recipie that would give you your socketables back...there's just no way to do anything with the socketables in an item except destroy them, using the commands you have for making cube recipies. Even if you could somehow interact with an item in a socket, a cube recipie can only have up to three outputs, so at most, you'd be able to return the item and two of the socketables.[/quote]
I'll get around to answering the rest when I get chance (most likely on Tuesday) but for now, yes there is a standard code to auto-remove the contents and keep them (although it escapes me at this exact moment).
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Post by Ulthrion » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:14 pm

I've just found Laurana Kagonesti's Ice Shield, and the set-name appears as an evil force. My guess is that it should be the:
"Laurana, The Golden General"
From the complete set listing.

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Last edited by Ulthrion on Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by boldie » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:29 pm

are items with the name of 'psy' (eg psyaxe) meant to be invisible or do i have the same problem that i do with reagents?
hmm i reached lvl 8 of the underdark but only less than 10 reagent drops and no decent stuff, is lvl 9 and 10 any worth exploing? i thought not, so i went on to nightmare :cool: (one thing i can say is on lvl 1 of the underdark the hellshrooms kikd my ass quite abit, then untl lvl 7 the dudes were easy, maybe you should weaken the hellshrooms?)

Boldie
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Assorted 0.995b Comments

Post by theonlymoose » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:12 am

it you thought level 1 of the UD was tough, try level's 9 & 10. They are the supreme levels in the underdark

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Post by boldie » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:30 am

well i kinda got held back on lvl 8 ;) about as far as a lvl 40 barb can get so far :cool:
anyway ive reinstalled PH and the reagents are looking good again, lets hope the psy thing is fixed 2.

Boldie
Last edited by boldie on Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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