How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post anything Diablo III, or upcoming Diablo Imortal or Diablo IV here.
User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:34 am

I wonder what the future will be then for Phrozen keep; probably somewhat divided. I guess we'll just have to wait until both Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 are released to know for sure.

User avatar
Necrolis
Senior Admin
Throne
Posts: 9125
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: The Land of the Dead
Contact:
South Africa

Hand-picked

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Necrolis » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:10 am

FoxBat" wrote:There's alot of untapped potential in 1.10, without even touching all the great code-editing extension systems that have been made. But there aren't a whole lot of modmakers really actively and intensely working on them anymore. It's always a small portion that actually make it to release, so when your modders are small to begin with, completed projects are even smaller.[/code]when you've put in a tens of thousands of man hours coding, you tend not to give as easily as the average modder
FoxBat" wrote:Not that there seem to be that many people interested in downloading/playing mods either; brother laz still has more activity going on than this entire site.
most of those left aren't doing it for the players/praise, they are doing it for their own personal goals. and as for brother laz having a 'more active site', most of the stuff is spam or useless trolling combined with lots of flamers and ingrates, not something you want in a mod creating community...
Image
Netiquette, Do you USE it?!?! | Nefarius' Fixed TXT Files | Terms Of Service
Blackened | Day of Death | D2GFEx
"What was yours is mine. Your land, your people, and now your life." - Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
Judgement is Final, Death is Eternal

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:23 am

Necrolis" wrote:most of those left aren't doing it for the players/praise, they are doing it for their own personal goals. and as for brother laz having a 'more active site', most of the stuff is spam or useless trolling combined with lots of flamers and ingrates, not something you want in a mod creating community...
I spent a month or 2 reading Laz's site within a year or so of when his mod was taken off this site and I can at least partially confirm this. I have nothing against Laz himself or his mod besides never finding time to play it but I gave up on the site because it was an endless soap opera of the grandest proportions and had a somewhat bipolar nature to it. I told him this as well. After that I looked at releases only and gave up on the forum. There's some good stuff going on there and the mod has split into 2 categories for different fan types so they'd stop arguing which way would be better and the official version is still being developed (to my knowledge, haven't been there in a few months). I have played up to level 20 and know it's a fantastic mod even going that far.

____

As far as the future of the Phrozen Keep I can confirm Onyx does want it to continue as much as anybody but is in a, "wait and see" state because he's not sure how things will unfold. He would like to see this site as a hub to Diablo III one way or another.

User avatar
Lady Isabelle
Hosted Forum Moderator
Champion of the Light
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:36 pm
United States of America

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Lady Isabelle » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:33 am

1.10 change log
Fundamental architecture changes/improvements
The skill and monster systems are now completely data-driven.
Skill balancing is simpler and quicker.
Monster control/populating/creation is simpler.
Although done for our needs, mod-makers should like these changes too.

User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:04 pm

I hoped you would have gotten the message by the lack of response in the previous thread that discussed this, but no. No matter how many times you post this question, the outcome will be the same. This isn't a matter of public discussion, at least for now. End of story.
Onyx

That doesn't make a lot of sense... Essentially you are the person at the helm of Phrozen Keep now am a right? Do you not at all feel an obligation to the community to at least make some kind of comment or statement on this latest revelation. Kingpin had stated you had wanted to use Phrozen Keep as a hub for Diablo 3 modding though this was prior to the news that modding Diablo 3 will be strictly against Terms of service and offline play is being removed entirely.

So when myself and others are debating the subject on what's going to happen once Diablo 3 release and you being completely silent on the issue is really not something I can interpret accurately; so if you would take a few minutes of you're time to explain it to myself or the community here it would be much appreciated.

yes I am aware Phrozen Keep abides by Blizzards policies and terms of service; that worked fine for Diablo 2 as you could still mod the game; play offline, LAN, TCP/IP and Open.net... And yes I know full well the line that was drawn against private servers and I completely understand that. Diablo 3; however, has just become a much more complicated matter since the news a few weeks ago.

So does this mean modding Diablo 3 or discussing Diablo 3 modding is going to be something the Phrozen Keep is opposed to? I am simply looking for clarity on the issue, as are a number of others within the community so if you could be a bit more forthcoming on where you stand on this matter that would be very helpful. Or is it that you simply don't have an answer at this time? Which is fully understandable. I'm not in opposition of you in anyway I am just curious. Thanks

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:15 pm

Ok Voragoth9. I gave you some unofficial information because it seemed you geared MANY posts with the same question and I've happened to have alot of conversations with him on many different topics. And your continual opening of that same question was starting to bother me due to extreme repetition. However if he doesn't want to discuss it I'm sure he has his reasons which if I recall he's already mentioned. There's no point in calling him out. I've enjoyed our conversation but I've always supported Onyx's decisions and this is no exception.

Anyway there simply is no way to truly determine the answer for some months now so we might as well wait and see what happens. :cool:

User avatar
Lady Isabelle
Hosted Forum Moderator
Champion of the Light
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:36 pm
United States of America

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Lady Isabelle » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:43 pm

So does this mean modding Diablo 3 or discussing Diablo 3 modding is going to be something the Phrozen Keep is opposed to?
I think it should be fairly obvious to the answer. in Blizzard vr BnetD, any sort of private server was against there Terms of Service and became illegal to host one.
Knowing Blizzard I am sure they will be strict about no modding for Diablo III, so the general result will be that The Keep will abide by there Terms of Service as always. Im pretty sure Onyx will provide a Terms of Service update by Diablo III release concerning about Diablo III modding. But It cannot be right now because they may change there mind .
Last edited by Lady Isabelle on Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:31 am

Ok; I understand. Like I said I just wasn't sure if the news on Diablo 3 would have any impact on Phrozen Keep's plans for the future or its policy. Phrozen keep has always been a passive supporter of Blizzard and supported their ToS; I accept that and am not trying to argue against that it anyway. I was only curious how or if Phrozen Keep would confront the ToS for Diablo 3 since Blizzard has essentially given the entire modding community a middle finger in favor of it's real cash auction house, and how or if there will be a future for Diablo 3 modding at Phrozen Keep. I'm not suggesting what they should do; I'm only curious because Phrozen Keep's stance on Diablo 3 modding would likely determine if I am going to go ahead with a Diablo 3 project or a Torchlight 2 project, as my days of modding Diablo 2 are over.

I'm clearly not the only person wondering this, but no one is really addressing this issue directly at this time. It just seemed overall there was a lot of uncertainty and Onyx is really the only person who can lay out how it's going to be; at this time he has chosen not to do that and fair enough. But muting the issue isn't going to solve anything the community is going to need an official statement on the issue sooner or later. Phrozen Keep is an amazing community and resource for Diablo modding and if it remains as a hub purely dedicated to Diablo 1&2 and Blizzard's policies then fair enough! I personally consider that self castration, but I am entitle to my own views n opinions. I will always support Phrozen Keep regardless; without it my mod for Diablo 2 would never have existed.

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:26 am

Yes, I'm kind of bummed out on all this. And if we're talking about self inflicted dismemberment at least it's voluntary, 19th century choir boys didn't always have that choice....

But I really believe regardless of what happens you can't stop modders. Even if the official engine isn't used and it's not called, "Diablo" it will be done. Blizzard might like ruling with an iron fist but the tougher they keep it the more people will do what they don't want. I'm not saying I personally would go against Blizzard, just that it's inevitable.

And yes Phrozen Keep has always been one of my favorite websites even after D2 was long out of the limelight. But you can still use a different engine, different graphics, a different name, and not violate any TOS. :)

User avatar
kingpin
Retired Admin
Cherub
Posts: 10954
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:51 pm
Contact:
Sweden

Hand-picked

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by kingpin » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:55 am

That doesn't make a lot of sense... Essentially you are the person at the helm of Phrozen Keep now am a right? Do you not at all feel an obligation to the community to at least make some kind of comment or statement on this latest revelation. Kingpin had stated you had wanted to use Phrozen Keep as a hub for Diablo 3 modding though this was prior to the news that modding Diablo 3 will be strictly against Terms of service and offline play is being removed entirely.
Why you using my name? I have never stated that Keep would be a hub for Diablo 3 modding. I only stated that modding in diablo 3 would have been possible without Blizzard's support. Now, you already got the answer from Onyx related to how keep's stance to this is in another topic. So, is no need to even repeat this in future from now on.

User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:45 pm

Sorry it was D2 Mod Player that said that, my mistake and yes I do have a clear answer now. Thank Runic for TL2 plus we'll also have Grim Dawn to look forward to.

User avatar
Sir Xavius
Junior Member
Paladin
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:27 pm
United States of America

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Sir Xavius » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:49 pm

gerbilfat" wrote:The online only and no mods thing is the deal-breaker for me. There are so many fantastically crazy/talented people out there who make great mods. Modding and playing cool mods are the fundamental D2 experience for me. I am the person who wore out their left click button. There is something satisfying about playing something that you know someone else made for the love of doing it, not for making a buck or for getting some kind of e-cred.

At this point, I am waiting for the pay to play announcement. :( Blizzard has tasted from the glided Cup of Monetization +3, and I don't see them being merely satisfied with making a killing at the register when they can take a pound of flesh every month from subscribers. Is Diablo 3 going to end up being an unmoddable MMO?
Hear, hear! I'm with you -- if D3 is online only, i'm out before i'm even in. I prohibit the internet at home and i only play SP. I have my own private, interesting mod, and if i can't have SP D3, then i guess i'll be modding D2 to death.

If Blizzard had any business sense, they'd replicate their D2 business plan, and add some ideas:
1. Release D3 for both Mac and Windows. Check.
2. Enable online play. Check.
3. Allow for the same depth in a SP mode. Prob'ly not.
4. Advertise and develop it out the wazoo. TV, YouTube, online news reports, etc.
5. Release the softcoded version a few years down the line to maintain the sales of new games, since mods keep fan interest, which helps word-of-mouth advertising to new, younger players.
6. Something they haven't done -- open the source code of older Diablo engines when new versions come out, maybe 10 years after the first release. That way, the open-source side can help siphon or retain interest in the franchise.

That last one is more than a pipe dream. When software has run its course, it only helps to open the code to the public to keep development going and interest always sparked.

It seems when young software developers first start out, they start out with a dream to make a product that fits their vision, in this case an immersive 3D RPG with lots of interesting and innovative gaming techniques. Then over time, somewhere along the way, the goal stops being art and becomes income. Nothing wrong with the profit motive, mind you, but once you get that big, it's time for corporate to tell their programmers: "Make the game of your dreams. Then we'll figure out how to make money with it."

With that said, i love the development of D3 so far, and hope that Blizzard makes a SP version...

User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:07 am

Blizzard Quote:

GameFront: While there will be no official mod tools for Diablo 3, does Blizzard condone D3 mods?

Julian Love: There’s no direct intent to say that we don’t want D3 to be moddable. And, to be honest with you, the technology itself, on just a fundamental level, makes this the most moddable version of Diablo there’s ever been.

However, we have these other goals that supersede modding; we want to provide a safe and secure experience for players to play in and trade items in, and in order to do that, we had to make the game online play only. Once we made that decision, that effectively eliminated the possibility of having moddable games, since you’re going to have to connect to our service in order to play. So that’s a slight consequence of our online-only decision.

I’ll say that there’s never really been an intention with past Diablo games to make them moddable, either; it’s just that people found a way to make it happen. It’s not necessarily something we went out of our way to support.

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:43 am

"So that’s a slight consequence of our online-only decision."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The most moddable version that can't be modded? I can't stop laughing. Really. Please, someone get a tranquilizer. :mrgreen:

They never went out of their way to support mods? And yet they were there and have always been a big part of Diablo. They really don't realize what they are saying. I can't play a game for years without tons of content and Blizzard better deliver on that. Create new acts and adventures, new monsters, new music, new characters. If we are going to purchase items they had better deliver, and big time. That still wouldn't be as good as D2 is and I suspect many players will go back to it again and again. But for D3 to even be as good as D2 it is going to have to do alot over the next 10 years. To not support modding, well then why doesn't Blizzard do it for us? And this time guys it won't be for free. ;)

And one other thing. Blizzard knows darn well creating a single player version you can play offline could in no way hamper the security of the online version. There are ways to not allow the 2 to be merged. And to say online is more secure than single player is another joke. Single player has always been more secure for ME because I don't have to put up with other players hacks and mods that are absolutely rampant in WOW. If we had a single player version we could actually play if their server or our ISP goes down not to mention lower server costs and lag on Blizzards end. So in 10 years D3 will be like D2 where there is no priority to the game and it will have server issues even if you don't want to really play it online. Online games are the wave of the future and single player is dying.

It is inevitable I suppose but making all games casual is a big mistake. That's what I think of MMO quality games. I have met tons of amazing people, one or two of which has permanently changed my life in very dramatic ways. But that is NOT gaming, it is socializing. I don't play games to socialize but to relax and those don't always go hand in hand. I love people but their absence is all the better, I need silence once in awhile. I'm sure many of you agree. I love my current MMO but EVERY time I log in I have to say hi to 10 different people. I guess I'm just a scrooge but I could do without that once in awhile. Even the people I absolutely love and will talk to every time I see them. At that point I am not gaming, but chatting. If chatting were a game that would be different, but it is not. Even voice wouldn't fix that. If I am gaming, I want to game. The two don't always mix for me well. Anybody have any opinions? Anyway, I can only hope D3 has a faster pace than a standard MMO, I really can't have another game in my life that takes 500 hours and still need more work. 1-200 is good enough. :)

User avatar
Hans
Dark Alliance Beta Test
Dominion
Posts: 6438
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Hans » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:42 pm

I sense the game is really going to be social and be made for casuals.

Some of the testers stated that Infernal is hard but I doubt it will be that hard for the Diablo hardcore players (talking about long time Diablo players).

I am nit a fan of any mmo and like to stay away from them.

I see Diablo 3 releasing new DLC for a fee every 6 months or so in between the expansions. Mostly will be gear update and recipes for the artisans to learn and a few events or special maps.

Blizzard is worried that WoW might be losing steam in the sales department, especially with the new starwars mmo coming out before christmas. That is why they had the promo for WoW players to get D3 free for 1 year sub.
"Hi. My name is Hans, and I am addicted to a game that is not yet been made" - Card carrying member of D3 Addictions Anonymous, since June 2008.
Card carrying member of Mentaldom, since May 2006 - Zy-El Hardcore.
"German pornstar/Bee Gee lookalike" & "The Blacksmith"
Trying to picture Hans as a Dominion...nah it isn't working sorry. It's the mustache that gets me every time - Al-T.
"All men play on 127" O-H - Hans
"Okay, time out. This is Zy-El. The mod of total excess. Since when would any Zy-El lover do only what's necessary?" - Metropolis Man
Zy-El Wiki|New Zy-El Website

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:51 pm

Thank you Hans, I found your post quite valuable. And I like that avatar. :)

I think what you mean by "Infernal" is that it represents the third play-through once your character is near max level? If that is the case it's proving the game really is casual. So I will have to play 50 hours to get a real challenge. hmm...

User avatar
ki4m
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by ki4m » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:32 pm

Infernal is the fourth difficulty..
It will come after Hell mode
I need more Dropbox space, pls register using this referal link, so you and me get 250mb more space:
http://db.tt/sbpJWYD1

User avatar
Lady Isabelle
Hosted Forum Moderator
Champion of the Light
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:36 pm
United States of America

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Lady Isabelle » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:49 am

"I’ll say that there’s never really been an intention with past Diablo games to make them moddable, either; it’s just that people found a way to make it happen. It’s not necessarily something we went out of our way to support."



1.10 change log
Quote:
Fundamental architecture changes/improvements
The skill and monster systems are now completely data-driven.
Skill balancing is simpler and quicker.
Monster control/populating/creation is simpler.
Although done for our needs, mod-makers should like these changes too.

I HAD to repeat this. They say they dont support it yet they stated this...... /facepalm

"And one other thing. Blizzard knows darn well creating a single player version you can play offline could in no way hamper the security of the online version. There are ways to not allow the 2 to be merged. And to say online is more secure than single player is another joke. Single player has always been more secure for ME because I don't have to put up with other players hacks and mods that are absolutely rampant in WOW. If we had a single player version we could actually play if their server or our ISP goes down not to mention lower server costs and lag on Blizzards end. So in 10 years D3 will be like D2 where there is no priority to the game and it will have server issues even if you don't want to really play it online. Online games are the wave of the future and single player is dying. "

I cannot agree to this enough.


"Anybody have any opinions?"
The internet has been designed for social interactions even in multiplayer videogames. I have met alot of cool people irl from playing with them in a video game. Yes there are still assholes but thats natural. Single player is your alone time/back up if your internet is down. Which is why everyone need alone time and so do games.

@Vorgoths quote

Having played Team Fotress 2, which also allows you to buy in game items with $$$ and is multi-player only, is in fact moddable. I honestly think Blizzard does NOT have any excuse what so ever to not allow any form of modding. It may not be the mods like MXL, more like simple sound/animation/skin edits that do not really kill the game. Im pretty sure in TF2, where some files are client side and some are server side, would also be possible to have specific files server/client side or "untouchable" if you will in D3.

Also to lazy to quote tag

User avatar
Voragoth9
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Voragoth9 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:59 am

A follow up question to the same interview.
GF: Hacked private servers were created for World of Warcraft; odds are there will eventually be a modded server or a way to play Diablo 3 without b.net, at which point people will be able to make mods. Would blizzard support such actions?

I think people will have a very difficult time doing that. I don’t think we’d be in a position where we can support that sort of endeavor, because it really falls outside of our development focus, which really is to provide this secure and high-quality experience that really demands an online-only game experience.

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:56 am

Voragoth9" wrote:A follow up question to the same interview.
Scripting engines of all kinds that slowly become easier and easier with little knowledge in base programming itself is the wave of the future. Blizzard might be utter perfection when it comes to gameplay refinement but at some point even Joe down the street will be able to mod Diablo 3 because of technology down the road and even what currently exists. Games are becoming easier and easier to make despite their added complexity. D3 might need a whole behavioral engine underneath to replace the graphics only files on our hard drives but Blizzard needs to get off it's high horse when it comes to difficulty of modding D3. I have talked to and seen the skills of many people and scripting code that while not exact serve the same function with little effort on their part. It would be alot of work but not as difficult as they may think. The extreme popularity and desire and importance people place on any Blizzard product guarantees someone will have the skill and determination to make it happen. It has happened to me on my own projects and I did not quit until I was done, I could not or I would never sleep. And often it is not one person, but eventually a whole group of people that end up contributing. It often takes years but it happens. In many ways not needing to dig into the original code like what was done in D2 and to start over from scratch is EASIER, and who wants an exact replica when the whole point of a mod is to be different. :)

User avatar
Lady Isabelle
Hosted Forum Moderator
Champion of the Light
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:36 pm
United States of America

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Lady Isabelle » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:20 pm

"Games are becoming easier and easier to make despite their added complexity"

However that is not some of the cases with some games. DICE announced that they will not release modding tools for Battlefield 3s release. The reason why was because the tools were to advanced for average computers. Just for the maps alone, it takes a VERY long time to render maps and a VERY long time to compile them while requiring a massive amount of CPU RAM. So not every game may be simple to mod as it seems.


"A follow up question to the same interview. "

Difficult =/= impossible. Eventually someone may infact create one eventually.

User avatar
D2 MOD player
Forum Regular
Angel
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:38 pm

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by D2 MOD player » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:16 pm

XiresNar" wrote:The reason why was because the tools were to advanced for average computers. Just for the maps alone, it takes a VERY long time to render maps and a VERY long time to compile them while requiring a massive amount of CPU RAM. So not every game may be simple to mod as it seems.
That's interesting. I am aware of things that are just barely being able to be done on average PC's. I myself to render 1 season of a TV show take 1 week of constant processing to churn it out in HD video (a true remaster with multiple passes) and so am aware of limitations we can sometimes have. And I had to overclock and turn it into a workstation just to even be that fast. We'll have to wait a few years for some things.

Thanks for that information, appreciate it. :)

User avatar
Tetsumaru
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:48 am
Location: tokyo, japan
Contact:

Re: How can we expect to mod Diablo III?

Post by Tetsumaru » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:37 am

There's been a semi-working server emulator for the Diablo III beta for a while now, with the source code publicly available on github. It's written in C#, and called Mooege.

Post Reply

Return to “Other Diablo Games”