Mod Development Threads - Impending Lockdown!

[Sephorus]

In talking with the rest of the staff, the topic of mod development threads in this particular forum has come up, and the decision on the matter is that this forum is not - I repeat, not - for the discussion of developing a particular mod, but ideas that can be implemented into any mod. In keeping with this, I am giving all mod development threads currently open in this forum one week - that is, until August 4th - to have enough progress on their mod to request a thread from Alkalund at the Non-Hosted Mods forum. On August 4th, I am going to go through and lock down all mod development topics that are open. In addition to this, I am going to lock down any future mod development threads as they occur.

I apologize for any inconvenience, but this forum is not a 'mid-point' for the Non-Hosted Mods forum - rather, the Non-Hosted Mods forum is the first step. Feel free to leave any questions you have on this matter.

[NewbieModder]

Does this mean that there will be traffic in the Non-Hosted Mods forum?
As a request, can the moderators regroup Non-Hosted Mods into the top catagory (Diablo II Mod Making), as opposed to the category so far down it's almost never frequented? I'm sure that i'm not the only one who only reads the forums above Hosted Mods more frequently then the ones below them.

[Sephorus]

It really depends on the actual mod. There's some that are currently sitting here that have enough to warrant a thread at the Non-Hosted Mods forum, but, for the most part, there's a lot of "one-shot" mods that people either lost interest in, or they're working really, really slowly on. Depending on how many actually get moved over to the NHM forum, things might pick up again.

[jbouley]

It would also help if people with non-hosted forum threads would e-mail me occasionally with news of some new or significant development in their mod's progress.

I'd be happy to provide news tidbits like that on the home page updates, with links to the forum threads.

[Myhrginoc]

As a request, can the moderators regroup Non-Hosted Mods into the top catagory (Diablo II Mod Making), as opposed to the category so far down it's almost never frequented? I'm sure that i'm not the only one who only reads the forums above Hosted Mods more frequently then the ones below them.

We'll consider it. But everybody wants top billing, and there is only so much prime real estate on a web page to go around.

[Alkalund]

[quote=NewbieModder";p="117665"]I'm sure that i'm not the only one who only reads the forums above Hosted Mods more frequently then the ones below them.[/quote]

Thanks for the suggestion, but that is an imposition you make on yourself, not a problem with the forum arrangement. We have dozens of forums, users should have no problems in scrolling a little bit.

The current forum arrangement is functional and quite logical, so it likely won't change. The matter is being discussed though.

[Sephorus]

It has begun.

As you might have noticed, I've started locking down mod topics. In case anyone feels like they were unfairly locked down, or that another project wasn't locked down and should have been, let me explain.

If it even remotely appeared to be 'in the works', I locked it. If it seemed to be more, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?", then I left it alone. If anyone has a problem with their thread being locked, or if you see a thread that you feel should be locked, then feel free to send me a PM - after all, I'm nowhere near omnipotent. I can live with that. *chuckles politely*

[onyx]

It's ideas

He haven't builded his mod. I'm just discussing some thoughts that came and making suggestions.

Btw, in which forum we discuss development, if the mod is not hosted and has no thread in Non-Hosted Mods?

[Char]

you simply get yourself a thread in the non-hosted mods forum.

[Myhrginoc]

It's ideas

He haven't builded his mod. I'm just discussing some thoughts that came and making suggestions.

Btw, in which forum we discuss development, if the mod is not hosted and has no thread in Non-Hosted Mods?

There is a gap between this forum and the Non-Hosted Mods (NHM) forum. Here we should be talking about ideas that could be used in a mod, but not specific mod proposals. Ideas presented here are really intended for the public domain (as it were), and any mod maker should have access to them. NHM threads are specific and ideas therein are not intended for general consumption. But they also start with a detailed presentation of the concept, and continue with progress reports and informed feedback from interested parties.

But what about the prospective mod maker who has an idea and no forum or thread to explore it? He or she is squarely within the gap, which seems unfair. But the gap is deliberate: it gives the proposer time to think about the concept, build some structure, and get into the detail, without being artificially pumped up by everybody's enthusiasm. Whether by a single person or a development team, this should be an internal process---at least at the beginning. If a mod maker can't flesh out an idea without constant feedback from the general populace, how effective can the mod be? But in developing enough information to meet the NHM qualification, those ideas will be fleshed out, some experimentation should have been completed, and the developer(s) will have a better idea how to incorporate feedback without losing sight of the original idea.

[onyx]

So what I understood from your post it seems that if somebody has ideas for a mod, but is not ready for a thread in NHM forum, he has no place in this forum to disscuss his ideas.

Here we should be talking about ideas that could be used in a mod, but not specific mod proposals

Ok, now look at the description of the Mods Concept & Research forum:

This is the place for people to research themes and ideas for their mods as well as for others to post their suggestions for mod makers to make use of.

Now somebody tell me which one is the true... And if this is not the place for this thread, why nobody moved it where it's place is.

Btw, in this forum are lots of similar threads, disscussing ideas for a specific mod.

P.S.: Myhrginoc, if I missunderstood something because of my not-so-good english, please ignore this post.

[Myhrginoc]

So what I understood from your post it seems that if somebody has ideas for a mod, but is not ready for a thread in NHM forum, he has no place in this forum to disscuss his ideas.

That is true. Again, it seems harsh, but the idea is the mod maker or team should concentrate on the idea and not be polling the user community at the beginning. Mod making is hard work and you need a clear idea of where you are going with it if your mod is to be successful. We have had a lot of people declare very ambitious mods and then they find out how hard it can be.

Ok, now look at the description of the Mods Concept & Research forum:

This is the place for people to research themes and ideas for their mods as well as for others to post their suggestions for mod makers to make use of.

A person can discuss concepts and themes for a mod in the making without discussing the details of the proposed mod. That is consistent with the objective of this forum.

Btw, in this forum are lots of similar threads, disscussing ideas for a specific mod.

Most of those were started before the "lockdown" which occurred last month. If you read the two Announcement threads in this forum, it should make the relationship between this forum and discussions of individual mods more clear.

The real problem I am hearing is that Non-Hosted Mods has too high a bar for admittance, not that this forum is being closed to discussion of individual mods. That is certainly something the user community should feed back to us if there is a consensus of opinion.

I'll split the thread so this discussion can continue independent of any mod request---it affects many after all.

[Sephorus]

Let me kind of step in and clarify some things. This forum used to be for people to discuss mod ideas in general, as well as research things for their own mod, without turning it into a bunch of development notes. For example, a person that was making a Celtic-themed mod could come here asking about Celtic mythology, but they wouldn't be able to say,"I have done this for my Celtic mod".

However, a lot of people (and I mean a lot of people) used this forum as a place to talk about their own mod while waiting for clearance from Alkalund to have a thread in the Non-Hosted Mods forum. It got to the point where most projects that were announced here had a maximum lifespan of a month - almost like their authors lost inspiration before they even really got it. We had the lockdown as a way of trying to cut back on these kinds of projects, as we felt that it would be a good way to ensure that any projects that we 'hosted' in the forums would be serious enough to make it to an initial release. Maybe it wasn't the absolute best move we could have done, but it was something that we felt would benefit the forum community as a whole, and it was done with that in mind. Now, if we were dead wrong, and it's going to destroy any and all ambitions that people have, we'd want to hear that - personally, I'd rather hear that I messed up at something, as long at it gave me a chance to fix it.

[onyx]

The Lockdown announcement clears it all...

It makes it clear also why there are so many locked topics. Now everything makes sense.

Sorry if I offended someone - I didn't mean to, I was just asking questions. I think it doesn't need more disscusion.

[jbouley]

No offense taken, onyx.

In fact, it's good when members bring up issues like this. We admins and moderators get so caught up keeping the balance and enforcing the rules sometimes (as well as helping out newer modders) that we often don't see flaws in the system.

As a group, we staff members and admins are actually discussing the best way to try to open up things a bit to make it easier for people to discuss their projects, without opening up the floodgates to a lot of topics that will go nowhere.

We probably wouldn't have been discussing the issue at all if you and others hadn't said anything.

I never want people to think they cannot speak their mind here...I want them to (as long as they do it politely and with common sense/reason behind what they say. ). We aren't heartless fascist dictators here....at least, we hope we aren't.

A lot of what we do: correcting people, locking threads, warning people officially, banning folks, etc. probably seems incredibly harsh and maybe even spurious sometimes, but we generally have what seems to be a good reason and its done with the best of intentions.

We like the sense of community here and always welcome constructive criticism. If we got mad at people for pointing out our limitations and flaws, we'd have a lot longer list of banned member.

[onyx]

[quote=jbouley";p="127234"]
We aren't heartless fascist dictators here....
[/quote]

Yeah, sure

Just kidding. Glad my post helped you to discuss this problem. When I looked at the Lockdown announcment, I understood everything I need. I think you should have a place where people to discuss their ideas about their mods. Not talking about the NHM - because imagine a modder that just started and have some ideas about the world of his mod, but have nothing more detailed in mind. What is he supposed to do - ask for a thread in NHM with a letter like this: "I'm making a fantasy mod." The case for starting this topic was absolutely the same.

Maybe if you make the NHM more free so everyone can post, things will get better. This is just a suggestion and the choice is yours.

[jbouley]

The NHM forum might be loosened up in terms of requirements to get a thread...but if we go that route, likely we'd still require people to submit a request for a thread so that a moderator has to set up the thread.

This would prevent people from running numerous threads simultaneously on the same mod and would prevent people from just starting a thread, getting bored with their concept a week later. Then starting a new thread. And so on.

But that's just one working concept right now and not necessarily what will be the final result. Some folks fall in love with the idea of modding and post like mad about idea...but they never produce anything at all. And that's what we want to avoid: An over-abundance of "going nowhere" threads.

[onyx]

Ok, I got the idea and I must say that you're right.

I'll mention another little thingie that I noticed for the time I'm here. Something that you probably have been thinking of - why you left one of the important forums without moderators? I'm talking about the Multimedia forum. My deepest respect for Har'lea'quinn and especially for Incandescent One (he's in my credits wihtout ever talked to him), but since I'm here I never saw one of them online. If they quit modding, why don't you change the multimedia moderators? I know it's not my job, but it's just a thing I noticed. I certainly know there are people who can be moderators, and I sure have one name in mind that deserves it most.

I'm sure you've been discussing this and obviously you didn't make a desicion, but I just wanted to tell you this, because I'm wondering why it's this way...

[Joel]

Moderating is not just being here, sitting for troublemakers.
Harleaquin & Incandescent are maybe online when you're not ??

Take also not that Senior Moderator (like me) take a constant attention to every single forum. So even if some mods can be out for a while, we are here to keep things sane.

[onyx]

[quote=Joel";p="127479"]
Harleaquin & Incandescent are maybe online when you're not ??
[/quote]

Incandescent One
Last Visit: 14th August 2003, 9:02 am
Last Post: 7th January 2003, 9:53 am !!!

Har'lea'quinn
Last Visit: 1st August 2003, 12:22 pm
Last Post: 22nd June 2003, 10:56 am

I don't think so. It's because I tried to contact Incandescent One, but he never replied to me. And I decided to check.


[quote=Joel";p="127479"]
Take also not that Senior Moderator (like me) take a constant attention to every single forum. So even if some mods can be out for a while, we are here to keep things sane.
[/quote]

I know this. I wrote it was just a thing I noticed and wanted to ask - that's all

[jbouley]

Well, as long as it's been mentioned here...even though it's off the original topic, we had been talking about moderator gaps and with so much going on, frankly...the Multimedia Forum "fell throught the cracks."

Obviously, we have good coverage all the way around with our senior mods and other moderators and the admins as well, but the forum probably could use some official leadership since both of the moderators have vanished lately.

If anyone would like to provide suggestions for possible multimedia gurus we might want to consider, please feel free to e-mail me. And a note to everyone: Don't go nomating yourself unless you really do have a good chunk of multmedia modding knowledge AND the time/inclination to do the job of moderating, which we do take seriously.

In the meantime, the staff and admins will look around and see if any members or current moderators "fit the bill" for heading up that forum.