Altered Game Mechanics

Information and teasers from the upcoming mod, Cabal Wars - Aeons Tide. NOTICE: This project has been scrapped in lieu of the Shadow Empires mod.
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Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:40 am

Just a summary of what i've been changed on how :

1. Characters.
2. Combats.
3. Affixes.
Last edited by Joel on Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:04 pm

CHARACTERS :

There is the final Cabal that will be in the Mod :

* Shalafi
* Chaos
* Knight
* Battlerager
* Invader
* Hunter

What differentiate them ?
Easy first, the starting statistics :
(fix 1.1)

Code: Select all

class	str	dex	enr	vit	stamina	hp
Shalafi	5	10	25	10	50	4
Chaos	10	15	15	10	70	6
Knight	15	10	10	15	90	8
Battle.	25	10	5	10	100	12
Invader	15	10	15	10	80	8
Hunter	10	25	10	5	75	10
Each charater begin also with the Magical Backpack
that grant therm to craft stuff, a Anchorage Stone (TP scroll), a food pack and 100 gold.

At each level up, the player gain 1 stat point.
All stats are maxed at 100.

For skills points, the amount you gain is given by the formula :
(fix 1.1)

Code: Select all

Shalafi : 1 skill point every (ENERGY)/30
Chaos : 1 skill point every (ENERGY+VITALITY)/30
Knight : 1 skill point every (DEXTERITY+STRENGTH)/30
Battle. : 1 skill point every (STRENGTH)/30
Invader : 1 skill point evry (ENERGY+DEXTERITY)/30
Hunter : 1 skill point every (DEXTERITY)/30
Skill is maxed at 30 points.

The life and mana gain are :

Code: Select all

Shalafi : +K*0.5 HP, +C*1.5 MP 
Chaos : +K*0.75 HP, +C*1.25 MP 
Knight : +K*1 HP, +C*1 MP 
Battle. : +K*1.5 HP, +C*0.5 MP 
Invader : +K*1.25 HP, +C*1 MP 
Hunter : +K*1.25 HP, +C*0.75 MP 

with K = (vitality / 10) and C = (energy / 10) 
NOTES : you can find special items or shrines that grant you a free stats points. Use them wisely !
Last edited by Joel on Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:15 pm

COMBATS :

More notes on some combat related stats.

Code: Select all

Satrting AC = Dex/5.
AR = Dex/5 + Starting_AR + AR_LevelBonus.
With

Code: Select all

Shalafi : S_AR = 1, AR_LB = 0.33 (+1 every 3 lvl)
Chaos : S_AR = 2, AR_LB = 0.5 (+1 every 2 lvl)
Knight : S_AR = 3, AR_LB = 0.75 (+3 every 4 lvl)
Battle. : S_AR = 4, AR_LB = 1
Invader : S_AR = 3, AR_LB = 0.75
Hunter : S_AR = 5, AR_LB = 1
Basically every monster are scaled upon a specific class that fit their
nature. Orcish warrior use the Battlerager table for combat etc ...
Many more skills now use AR to hit so don't overlook it !

Combat and Armor Shrines are out.

The STRBonus and DEXBonus to damage from items have been reduced & don't exceed 50% now.
Last edited by Joel on Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:43 pm

AFFIXES :

This post will present the affixes use in CW-AT and explain they're disposition.

3.1 Generic Infos :

Affixes are a few less than in classic LoD but I only kept the interresting one. If you wonder were the MF or GF% affix are gone, seek out runes or backpack recipes ...

All the affix are scaled to be available on item only while it's interresting. You can't find a Leather Cap (ilvl 3) of Adamantine (alvl 90) ... or a Drakyry plate (ilvl 90) of Light (alvl 1) ...
So the affix pool is a bit samll but well centered on the ilvl.

There's no more difference betwwen suffix and prefix. In fact there's suffix only, with some bonus here and here :)

3.2 Suffix lists:

'Metallic' Suffixes :

Code: Select all

Name	level	maxlevel	levelreq
of Lead	1	10	1
of Copper	5	15	5
of Brass	10	20	10
of Bronze	15	25	15
of Iron	20	30	20
of Steel	25	35	25
of Silver	30	40	30
of Gold	35	45	35
of Electrum	40	50	40
of Platinum	45	60	45
of Adarcer	50	70	50
of Mithril	60	80	60
of Evantine	70	90	70
of Vhaeth		80	95	80
of Adamantine	90		90
grant att% & dmg% between 5 and 100 on weapons or ac% & dur% on armor between 5 and 100.

The ilvl one ( > Adarcer) also INCREASE the stat requirement (+10%,+15%,+20% and +25%). So beware that some high-lvl armor or weapons could become VERY hard or impossible to wear with some of these suffix. A Sigulari is an armor of req 90 STR. If you found a Sigulari of Adamtine, you'll end up with +100% AC sigulari with 112 STR req !!!
So you'll certainly have to stockpile +STR items or use spells to wear it !

Other suffixes :

Code: Select all

of Disruption : grants +dmg-undead (only on blunt weapon)
of Resilience : grants +dmg-demon (only on edged weapons)
of Protection : grants +red-dmg (on armor)
of Sharpness : gants damage-ac (on piercing/slashing weapons)
of Regeneration : grants +life (armor/jewel/class spec.)
of Arcanes : grants +mana (armor/jewel/class spec.)
The name is the same for the 12 level of the affix but the value are changing :)
So a lvl 3 Cap of Protection will have red-dmg 4 but a lvl 85 Bone Helm of Protction will have red-dmg 25 ... and so on

The all-mighty +X affix :

Code: Select all

+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
Something that'll recall some stuff to ad&d player !
The +X affix can spawn alone or in cunjunction with any other suffixes.
On weapon , the effects is a varaible +AR/+mag-dmg
Ona rmor, it grants +AC, +Dur%.

Exemple :
A leather cap ( lvl 1,AC 1, dur 5)
--> Leather Cap +1 : AC 1+1=2, Dur=5+10%=6.

A Siggurat ( lvl 50, Dmg 15-30 )
---> Siggurat +5 : Dmg 15-30 + 50-60 magic damage, + 50 AR.

The magical damage bonus is here to simulate the fact that powerful creatures can only be hit by +X weapon. (Such creatures are always Immune Physical and have a variable magic resistance.)
Great demon or undead as well as enchanted being are such foes that only fear +X weapons !

Skin & Scale affix :

Code: Select all

of Lizardskin
of Snakeskin
of Wyvernskin
of Wyrmskin
of Dragonskin

of Lizardscale
of Snakescale
of Wyvernscale
of Wyrmscale
of Dragonscale
grant res-xxx on armor (for the skin) or shield (for the scale).
The type of element that are resisted depend on the COLOR of the skin or scale. A red dragonskin will provide res-fire, a green Wyvernscale will grants poison resistance.
The color isn't displayed in the name, I assume you're all smart enought o take a looka t the item color and so find out what's going on :)

Elemental damage modifiers

Code: Select all

of Flames
of Frost
of Acid
of Shoke
grants elemntal damage bonus to weapon.
A Blade of frost gives +10-15 cold damage etc ...

Flames suffixes spawn only on slashing/piercing weapons (sword&dagger).
Frost suffixes spawn only on piercing/bashing weapons.
Shoke & Acid suffixes spawn on all weapons.

More details later ...

NOTES : You can find some ore here and there. By using smithing tools and/or an Athanor, you can extract some metal out of them. Then a simple recipes grants your items one of the 'Metallic' affixes effects.
Same goes for skin & scale.
Last edited by Joel on Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:11 pm

Just took a shower and realized that the stats-skills issue is bigger than I thought. And different than I suggested.
Once again:

I've calculated the skill points example of a shalafi with 25 energy, so 7 points to the first breakpoint. If she had 26 energy on start, she would end up with 4 more skill points in the end, since there are four breakpoints.
Now, if you take e.g. the chaos. Chaos needs 64 - (20 + 10)/2 = 39 stat points (=level-ups) for their first skill! That would (roughly estimated) lead to more than 100 skill points less in comparison to the shalafi!

I know that I just suggested that correcture 10 minutes ago. My fault, that's not the way it can be :(

Wednesday, it's my next chance to access the internet, maybe I'll come up with a solution until then.

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:27 pm

yes indeed it is !!

so if we keep the (E+V)/32 treshold, the chaos gain it's first skill points at :
32-20-10= lvl 2 so 5 level BEFORE the shalafi !
now if we want that all the class access the first skill points around lvl 5 (which is nice I think) we have to think a bit more :

First I thnik we could turn the Hunter to be dependent or DEX only.

So we have the Shalafi, battlerager and Hunter gaining their skills at lvl 5.
For the three others, if we keep the current needed stats, we have to put a treshold of 30 also.

BUT the Knight must so have only 10 DEX in and 10 in ENR.
AND the Invader must have only 15 ENR and 10 VIT.

So now every body got a skill points at lvl 5.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:43 pm

BUT the Knight must so have only 10 DEX in and 10 in ENR.
AND the Invader must have only 15 ENR and 10 VIT.
Beside that you mixed up the classes (Chaos depends on enr/vit, invader on dex/enr, while the knight needs dex/str), you probably meant 15 dex and 10 enr (or vice versa) in the first line, did you?

Because your solution is very good. Just let all characters have a total of 25 in their main attribute(s). Then they will gain their skills at a fair level.
My mistake was that I hastily assumed that two attributes cause a quicker skillpoint progress since they add up. But since all chars level up the same, that was wrong. Skills on two attributes only gives more variety in what you put your stat points while still climbing the breakpoint ladder.

Okay, last post for today, I'll be heading to Aachen to study...

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:49 pm

Nice :)
I think we got it now ?

Ah and good luck for your study ;)

*** currently fixing the above post ***
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Mathiu Silverburg » Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:36 am

I've got one question ( hope Im not repeating sth, what has been discussed a long time ago). As I understand your skill points depends on the stats - but total of inherited? If the first, if you have ring of str and wear it before lvl upping, so you would get more skills, you wouldnt loose them after removing the ring? Would it be possible to put a procedure of losing the skills, if you lower your primary stat?

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Aedeon » Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:01 am

the way it was figured out before is that you would get skill points for stat boosting items and they would be permenent but they would also be very rare/hi lvl
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:07 am

Aeeon is right.
Your skill point treshold take the current modified stats in account.

BUT, the first +1 STR/ENR/DEX/VIT affix is alvl 25 or so.

something like :

+1 stat : lvl 25
+2 stat : lvl 45
+3 stat : lvl 65
+4 stat : lvl 85
+5 stat : lvl 95

And the all mighty +1 to ALL stats is lvl 70.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Mathiu Silverburg » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:19 pm

Ok, now I understand

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:45 pm

Player also gain an additional MP for each 10 points in ENERGY and an additional HP for every 10 points in VITALITY.
Is that one additional point for each level-up or only once?
Don't tell us that it's a one time bonus as it would be ridiculosly low, also a starting vitality of 5 would be as good as one of 25.
If it is per level-up, it's about okay, although I still dislike a bit that with good luck a 25 vitality battlerager can have the same amount of life later like the 100 vitality battlerager.
In fact, the bonus points are much more important for the chars, which don't get much life per level like the shalafi. That's wicked!
I assume there will be much low-vitality builds (except, of course, those which depends on vitality for skills). Maybe even let players gain the additional point each 5 or 7 points in vitality/ energy?

Alternatively you could do it this way (each level-up):
Shalafi : +K*0.5 HP, +C*1.5 MP
Chaos : +K*0.75 HP, +C*1.25 MP
Knight : +K*1 HP, +C*1 MP
Battle. : +K*1.5 HP, +C*0.5 MP
Invader : +K*1.25 HP, +C*1 MP
Hunter : +K*1.25 HP, +C*0.75 MP

with K = (vitality / 10) and C = (energy / 10)
I haven't thought much about (dis-)advantages, but with this concept chars like the battlerager will get more out of their vitality than a shalafi and not vice versa!
Also, in later levels, the chars will get more life because their vitality is higher (of course valid for energy, too). So you 'almost' have the level in the formula as well. Think of it...

Also for the now much discussed skills & breakpoints:
It's fine now, but (never-satisfied me...) it would be a tad better if the breakpoint would be 32 like in 'old' times and the primary attribute (aka the total of the primary attributes) is 30.
I know this is only fine-tuning but for two reasons:
a) the chars get their skills earlier, at level 4 (30 at level 1, 31+1 at level 3, on level-up to level 4 it's the first time that the breakpoint is arrived). That is probably needed for the skill-based chars.
b)If a char hat two skill-based attributes, you have to divide the 25 points now and they get quite low, although they should be high for this char. With 30 points this would be less striking.

Just some thoughts :)

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Mathiu Silverburg » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:13 pm

Xcolibri is right, why not give more free points? ( by sacrificial if defined/lvl )
I know its in the base d2, but in such case I wouldnt be able ( Im talking like it would be in this system in normal d2 ) to make magic type assassin
( traps)

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:30 pm

[quote=Xcolibri";p="64245"][/quote]
Is that one additional point for each level-up or only once?
Don't tell us that it's a one time bonus as it would be ridiculosly low, also a starting vitality of 5 would be as good as one of 25.
[/quote]

obviously it's at each level up !!!

[quote=Xcolibri";p="64245"]
In fact, the bonus points are much more important for the chars, which don't get much life per level like the shalafi. That's wicked!
I assume there will be much low-vitality builds (except, of course, those which depends on vitality for skills). Maybe even let players gain the additional point each 5 or 7 points in vitality/ energy?

Alternatively you could do it this way (each level-up):
Shalafi : +K*0.5 HP, +C*1.5 MP
Chaos : +K*0.75 HP, +C*1.25 MP
Knight : +K*1 HP, +C*1 MP
Battle. : +K*1.5 HP, +C*0.5 MP
Invader : +K*1.25 HP, +C*1 MP
Hunter : +K*1.25 HP, +C*0.75 MP

with K = (vitality / 10) and C = (energy / 10)
[/quote]

Well it makes sense ...
i think we'll ahve to make tests and return on this later.

[quote=Xcolibri";p="64245"]
I haven't thought much about (dis-)advantages, but with this concept chars like the battlerager will get more out of their vitality than a shalafi and not vice versa!
Also, in later levels, the chars will get more life because their vitality is higher (of course valid for energy, too). So you 'almost' have the level in the formula as well. Think of it...
[/quote]

good point !

[quote=Xcolibri";p="64245"]
Also for the now much discussed skills & breakpoints:
It's fine now, but (never-satisfied me...) it would be a tad better if the breakpoint would be 32 like in 'old' times and the primary attribute (aka the total of the primary attributes) is 30.
I know this is only fine-tuning but for two reasons:
a) the chars get their skills earlier, at level 4 (30 at level 1, 31+1 at level 3, on level-up to level 4 it's the first time that the breakpoint is arrived). That is probably needed for the skill-based chars.
b)If a char hat two skill-based attributes, you have to divide the 25 points now and they get quite low, although they should be high for this char. With 30 points this would be less striking.
[/quote]

Well so 30 point in main att and a bk-point at 32.
So they get the first skill at lvl 3 i think ...
it's good.

Some comments about the affix ?
Last edited by Joel on Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Aedeon » Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:06 am

for affixes, looks good, I wouldn't have 'of regeneration' do a plus to life, but those look good. Are those all the affixes there are going to be or a sampling? cause you said you were cutting back on them but that really would make a very small variety of items
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:43 pm

it was a sample :)
the current affix pool is made of 55+ affixes ...

I keep the secret on
"of Remenbrance"
"of Earth/Fire/Wind/Void/Water"
"of Robbery" etc ...
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:19 pm

So the affix pool is a bit samll but well centered on the ilvl.
That's a good thing, you can rely on good items much better then.
There's no more difference betwen suffix and prefix. In fact there's suffix only, with some bonus here and here
What will you do with the prefix? Drop it? You will loose a lot nice item combinations then.
It reminds me of D1 (a good thing!). But still, I'd take prefixes, too (Like 'Silver Axe of Shoke'). Not only, but also because it is so D1-like (say 'King's Sword of Haste').
Can the +x attribute spawn with another prefix? Because that is (should be!) a must. Otherwise you won't get +x items with any other attribute, right?

The scale (lvl 1- lvl 90) is done very well with nice & fitting names, e.g. for the metal types.
The colour coding is great. But doesn't D2 have that too, in some ways?Anyway, it's a nice feature!

Yes, 'of regeneration' should be changed into another name.

The crafting for metal/skin/scale affixes is also a nice thing you should keep and expand. Recipes for +x items, too?

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:08 pm

Well in fact the '+X' are Prefix that have moved.

Look :
originally LoD create magic names like that

%0 %1 %2

where
%0 = prefix string
%1 = item string
%2 = suffix string
=> "King's Sword of haste"

Me :
%1 %2 %0

with the same coe :)
=>
%1 = Sword
%0 = +3
%2 = of Sharpness
-> Sword of Sharpness +3

I do that to look a bit more like the common amgic items form ADD.
Most of the items that read
"Copper Amulet of Gods" are artifacts or uniques items so ...

So you CAN find :
Sword
Sword +3
Sword +9
Sword of Copper
Sword of Copper +5
Sword of Violence +7
etc ...

Well, I think you wait for 'of Regeneration' to give +reg-hp ?
welll what about that :

of regeneration from alvl 1 to 50 give life
form 50 to 75 give +life and small regen-hp
75+ give huge life & huge regen-hp ...

Most of my affix work like that, slowly adding new stats to the common bonus.

Ah, a little features : poitons are now ALL labeleld 'A Potion Vial' ...
The only way to know what they do is to quaff them :)
So beware of potions of poison, of explosion and so on that could be used as weapons BUT injures you if you drink them ...
And , obviously, after drinking a potion, you still get the empty vial that could be reuse for recipes :)

EDIT:
Second tought about prefix, well just realized that you can't have a weapon with both speed affix ( "of Speed" ) and elemental damage ( "of Fire" e.g) ...

Grrr pesky suffix !!

So the only way I see to change that is to DUPLICATE every combination in magic***.txt so having :

Prefix like :
'Silver', 'Violent', 'King's'

Suffix like:
'of Quickness', 'of Gore', '+1' AND
'of Quickness +1' that adds the bonus from quicknness AND from '+1'
Whaaaaaa ... go back to keyboard !
Last edited by Joel on Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:39 am

Ah, a little features : poitons are now ALL labeleld 'A Potion Vial' ...
The only way to know what they do is to quaff them
So beware of potions of poison, of explosion and so on that could be used as weapons BUT injures you if you drink them ...
And , obviously, after drinking a potion, you still get the empty vial that could be reuse for recipes
Whew! Now that's a realistic change. I won't comment on that since I want to see how it turns out to be.
"No, it wasn't Baal who killed you lvl 97 hardcore shalafi, it was that potion, you know..."
Really, I'm not sure if that will work but are ready to trust you that it will... ;)
Maybe it's already enough to name all potions the same inspite of theri quality but let aside the dangerous ones?

BTW, will the potion vial remain in the belt after you drunk the potion?

What you plan for 'regeneration' is great :)

I understand what you did with the item code. Guess that will work. Guess you will work :mrgreen:

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:15 am

Welll for the potion ...
The only easy one to distinguate from the other is the throwing oen, cause they still display the quantity :)

There's also different mushroom and other eating items that nee to be tested once to know what they did.
( eat the green one with white dots BUT not the dark green ones !!!)

For the vial, it always appear in the inventory or is dropped on the floor if it's full but doesn't stack in the belt. It'll be tooo annoing !

So for the affix, do you think I've to take the second option of duplicating stuff ?
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Xcolibri
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:36 am

For affixes:
If you duplicate them, could there be (senseless) combinations like 'Silver Sword of Silver'?

If not, I'd say that duplicating, although more work, will greatly enhance the fun & use of items. Of course, it's your time... ;)

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:24 pm

[quote=Xcolibri";p="65087"]For affixes:
If you duplicate them, could there be (senseless) combinations like 'Silver Sword of Silver'?[/quote]

No, I will only duplicate suffix with +X on them, not the prefix.

[quote=Xcolibri";p="65087"]
If not, I'd say that duplicating, although more work, will greatly enhance the fun & use of items. Of course, it's your time... ;)[/quote]

He that's nothing a little C app can do on its own :)
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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Brother Laz » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:35 pm

Joel" wrote:-> Sword of Sharpness +3
Wow! How the f...? Is this code editing?
Joel" wrote:( eat the green one with white dots BUT not the dark green ones !!!)
Screen turns upside down, summons pink elephants? :) Interesting idea, considered that for a while too for D2:BLACK (Tome of Down Mortal -> -20 HP permanently) but thought it was cheap... if you can make it work on a timer, that's yet another reason to play this mod. :)
Joel" wrote:
Xcolibri" wrote: Is that one additional point for each level-up or only once?
Don't tell us that it's a one time bonus as it would be ridiculosly low, also a starting vitality of 5 would be as good as one of 25.
obviously it's at each level up !!!
Joel, just put that into your sig, cuz it's the third person asking the same question. :)
Last edited by Brother Laz on Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

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Re: Altered Game Mechanics

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:41 pm

Brother Laz";p="65135" wrote:
Joel" wrote:-> Sword of Sharpness +3
Wow! How the f...? Is this code editing?
No, just seek for MagicFormat key in your string.tbl and swap the positon of the various %0 %1 %2. ;)
Brother Laz";p="65135" wrote: Screen turns upside down, summons pink elephants? :) Interesting idea, considered that for a while too for D2:BLACK (Tome of Down Mortal -> -20 HP permanently) but thought it was cheap... if you can make it work on a timer, that's yet another reason to play this mod. :)
"I see ancestors ... pink ancestors ????"

Yep, if you want i can teach you how to do this the 'interesting' way ;)
Well the antidote , the thawing and stamina potion are now fruits and mushroom. 4 or 5 of them are good, the others are well bad ....
(like give you a permannt -1 regen-hp till you exit game etc ..., bring you to 1HP AND 1MP)
Brother Laz";p="65135" wrote: Joel, just put that into your sig, cuz it's the third person asking the same question. :)
Welll I think so ;) :grin:
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