[1.10] Collective Skills thread

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[1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by 54x » Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:38 pm

I thought perhaps that here in General we could take a leaf out of Code Editing's book and dedicate a whole thread to all of the new, interesting skill stuff that seems to be the craze among newbies and veterans alike at the moment. Perhaps a thread detailing various achievements we already have with 1.10 skills, and one of already collected problems, bugs, quirks, etc...

Good Idea/Bad Idea? :)
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Acromatic Aria » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:08 am

Skill problems:
-Many of us have had to deal with the "one property per stat" issue that's prevented us from implementing some of our ideas such as a %chance to cast spell passive. I was wanting to create a "Lady of the Night" passive for the Assassin that gave her nighttime bonuses, but the time stats need three parameters.

-Since a lot of the properties of attack skills and what fields are actually read out of skills.txt for a given skill are largely linked to their references to hardcoded server/client functions, it's really hard to link the properties of some skills. There goes my heatseeking, multishot Bone Spirit :(

-Some seemingly simple weapon mastery properties are turning out to be very difficult/impossible. Trying to create a simple weapon mastery for bows/crossbows or adding extra weapon properties that don't already have special passive links (extra attack speed, %deadly strike, crushing blow, etc) ends up applying those bonuses to all equipment even if you specify item types for the skill to be used on.

-Creating new ranged summons has the problem that the summons will run right up to monsters to attack them (if you use the NecroPet AI). If you use any normal monster AI that would be linked to that kind of monster, the monsters can do their ranged attacks but won't follow you.

-A problem I'm noticing with shape shifting skills (and any animation morph that is supposed to restrict your skill usage), is that the restrict columns don't seem to account for all cases. An example would be the new Delirium skill that morphs you into a Bone Fetish. It's supposed to disable all your attacks (restrict flag set in states.txt, but if you use that skill as a Druid you still have access to all your skills that you can normally cast in his other shapeshifting forms (any skill that has a 1 in the restrict column of skills.txt). If you change the restrict value to 2 for these skills, you can define specifically what skills can be used under that state, but unless theres a general "non-morphed" state in states.txt that your characters are normally under, then your Druid would no longer be able to summon or use Armageddon while not morphed. This problem also extends to other classes if you decide to add shapeshifting skills to them or start allowing them shapeshifting skills through items and then start using restriction flags so they can still use some skills while morphed.

The Good:
-A number of the monster spells can be made castable with a little tweaking. Virtually all the projectile attacks can be converted, but there are also some of the more interesting ones that can be done. The MonCurseCast skill that Oblivion Knights in Act 4 use will cast a random curse. The two curses only Succubi have can be made castable (I think Blood Mana would only affect characters though). It's funny giving someone that Spider Lay skill and then watching him crap webbing while he runs 8)

-With the ability to include stat references in synergy calculations, you can now base skill properties on any stat of your choosing (and even make references to created ones)! Now we can finally boost elemental damage based on a character's energy stat. I made an "Omnislash" attack that appears on one of my Final Fantasy themed uniques (Ultima Weapon). It's a variation of Zeal that grants really fast attacks that and get damage bonuses based on your current health. I also applied this to monsters by adding synergy bonuses from a new "magic-affinity" stat I made and then used monprop.txt to give the monsters a cahnce to spawn with bonuses to that stat (making them more powerful with their own skills :twisted: ).

-Though we only presently know how to make summons that will fight melee style (unless someone discovered it and just isn't telling), you can still get some interesting effects by giving them a skill (like an aura), or using the monprop and monequip columns to grant them some extra abilities (like casting spells wehn hitting something). You can also create auras specifically for a summon that spawn when you call the creature (a support summon :) ).

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Char » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:12 am

[quote=Acromatic Aria";p="119534"]-Creating new ranged summons has the problem that the summons will run right up to monsters to attack them (if you use the NecroPet AI). If you use any normal monster AI that would be linked to that kind of monster, the monsters can do their ranged attacks but won't follow you.[/quote]


what about using the rouge merc AI ? that has ranged attacks + follows you, doesnt it?

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Joel » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:32 am

[quote=Acromatic Aria";p="119534"]
-Since a lot of the properties of attack skills and what fields are actually read out of skills.txt for a given skill are largely linked to their references to hardcoded server/client functions, it's really hard to link the properties of some skills. There goes my heatseeking, multishot Bone Spirit :(
[/quote]

This is fixable by using a chain of lightning fury seeking out only one target.
LF can be used as basis of all multi or single homing missile.
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Acromatic Aria » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:50 am

what about using the rouge merc AI ? that has ranged attacks + follows you, doesnt it?
Doh! It's such a simple solution, and I completly missed it :roll: And it works perfectly, (they even come with a skill in monstats.txt for shooting arrows, so we should be able to assign any projectile attack we want). Now I can make my imp summon! I hope Vendanna sees this post (I know he was slaving over it for a while).

EDIT: Actually it DOESN'T work :cry: It worked before because I was testing it by specifically summoning the rogue in the rogue hireling column. When I tried to copy the row to the bottom and summon that rogue instead, she wouldn't attack! It seems both the Hireable and NecroPet AIs are melee only and there are hardcoded references to those lines in monstats.txt to make creatures in those lines fire missiles :x .
This is fixable by using a chain of lightning fury seeking out only one target.
LF can be used as basis of all multi or single homing missile.
Hmm, I'll have to try it with Bone Spirit them. Can that skill can be chained together to spawn a new missile at each collision by selecting a hitsubmissile for each spawned missile in the chain (So that I could hit an initial target, spawn two missiles to hit a new target which then spawns new targeting missiles on its collision), kind of like a multi-shot chain lightning attack? What about making the last missile in the chain target the caster?
Last edited by Acromatic Aria on Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by thulsadoom » Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:17 am

question: does item_lightradius work? :?:
try as i might, this ability will not work for my summon dove skill. anyone have a clue?
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Kurziel » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:19 am

[quote=Acromatic Aria";p="119534"]
-Creating new ranged summons has the problem that the summons will run right up to monsters to attack them (if you use the NecroPet AI). If you use any normal monster AI that would be linked to that kind of monster, the monsters can do their ranged attacks but won't follow you.
[/quote]

I haven't been following the threads on summoning skills too much so hadn't realized this was an issue. Couple of weeks ago I had summoned flying scimitars that would shoot lightning bolts, and followed me around.

I replaced the existing necroskeleton with my new pet (not the necromage). When I play around with it and see if I can get it working again.

Edit: bleh, fixed typo's and removed double post.
Last edited by Kurziel on Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by inhalantnut » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:09 am

Acromatic Aria";p="119544" wrote:
what about using the rouge merc AI ? that has ranged attacks + follows you, doesnt it?
Doh! It's such a simple solution, and I completly missed it :roll: And it works perfectly, (they even come with a skill in monstats.txt for shooting arrows, so we should be able to assign any projectile attack we want). Now I can make my imp summon! I hope Vendanna sees this post (I know he was slaving over it for a while).

EDIT: Actually it DOESN'T work :cry: It worked before because I was testing it by specifically summoning the rogue in the rogue hireling column. When I tried to copy the row to the bottom and summon that rogue instead, she wouldn't attack! It seems both the Hireable and NecroPet AIs are melee only and there are hardcoded references to those lines in monstats.txt to make creatures in those lines fire missiles :x .
I had a well thought out post to put here, but then my browser crashed :'(. So instead I will give a link.
viewtopic.php?t=14605&highlight=hirelings
It's the last post.

EDIT: Well, I was going to be lazy and leave it at a link, but I will copy and paste it instead. But if you want the full post and the discussion leading to it the link is still a good read.
EDIT 3: VERY IMPORTANT EDIT
After a conversation with Kingpin he came across a solution to the problem in EDIT 2. Well, it doesn't fix the bug but it's a workaround. His idea was to make a passive skill that transforms into the Vampire (or whatever) and give it to the hirelings that you want to be something other than the default for that act.

I have yet to test this, but I'm sure it will work.

Thanks Kingpin.

EDIT 4: It worked. This also solves the AI problem at least partially, as giving a Rogue a passive skill to change into a vampire makes the Rogue/Vampire attack from a distance. Actually after doing this and setting defaultchance to 0 and giving the vampire a bash like skill that does cold damage there is no way to tell it is a Rogue. Except for the fact that when you got to equip it it requires a bow.

Any fixes for that?
Last edited by inhalantnut on Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Kraj » Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:10 am

If the above post does not work (and since it refers to hirelins and not summoned pets, it may not) I have an idea to try. Create a new melee weapon and either automagic it or make it unique and give it %chance to cast the spell(s) you want to attack or hit. Set the damage to zero and the range to something large like 20. Unless the AI does something additionaly stupid, the pet should potentially attack melee as soon as it is in range (1/2 way across the screen), using its attack animation (no weapon will show unless it is an animation that uses one) and the spells will fire.

I'd test it myself, but I'm still learning how to add a new monster animation :P

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Vendanna » Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:39 pm

[quote=Kraj";p="119615"]If the above post does not work (and since it refers to hirelins and not summoned pets, it may not) I have an idea to try. Create a new melee weapon and either automagic it or make it unique and give it %chance to cast the spell(s) you want to attack or hit. Set the damage to zero and the range to something large like 20. Unless the AI does something additionaly stupid, the pet should potentially attack melee as soon as it is in range (1/2 way across the screen), using its attack animation (no weapon will show unless it is an animation that uses one) and the spells will fire.

I'd test it myself, but I'm still learning how to add a new monster animation :P[/quote]

maybe using the monequip and change the melee range would work, since that was one thing I didn't tried.

and yes, the Hireable AI is linked to the row I tried it the smae time I tried the other things (but failed to tell you that)

other thing I found, the Revive skill cannot be moved or cloned, simply as that, the behavior of the Revived monsters is hardcoded to the line in Skills.txt and if you change it, the monster will not follow you and will not attack (also it will revive without full health)

so this thing crushes all the items with necro skills (aka wands in unmodded) unless you put all your new skills over these old ones.

the problem is that if you do that, the Amplify Damage for necro (changed) will be carried over the Cursed status of the Boss monsters (that use this one)
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Brother Laz » Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:20 pm

What Joel was trying to say -

// Multiple homing missiles //

Take Teeth, give it a missile, any missile. Set the missile's range to about half the screen. Set its CollideType to 0 so it won't hit anything. Set AlwaysExplode to 1. Give it the collision function of Lightning Fury, set # of targets to 1, target seek range anything you want. Make it spawn a missile identical to the first one, but with the proper collision type and increased range.

Now, when you shoot it, it will go halfway across the screen in a straight line, then all the missiles will 'turn' and home in on the nearest enemy.

Looks great to have 20 missiles converging on the same target. :D

// Hunting missiles //

A variation. Do the same as above, but instead of making missile #1 spawn a normal missile, make it spawn another one just like it. Make that one spawn a third one. And so on. Give them all the Frozen Orb movement function [server side only]. Make this function spawn stationary bolts with range 5 and speed 0.

What this does is fire a missile that constantly homes in and retargets and follows the enemy around, and each time it passes through a target, it does damage [because it spawns one or two of those stationary bolts on top of the enemy]. Like 1.09 guided arrow, but it can [will] hit multiple targets, and chase them down to the end of the world.

You may want to limit the Teeth to a small number of missiles or just fire it as a normal missile [like Firebolt] instead of a multishot spread, or it can get very confusing.

Again, it looks great to have 5 missiles converging on the same target, piercing it, converging again, and shooting off in all directions to strike down some more nearby enemies. :D

Variation: instead of the FO movement function, use a movement function that spawns some sort of firewall. :)

// Hunting time bomb //

Dunno what to call it, but another variation of the hunting missile is to skip the FO movement part [so that it does no damage at all] and after x 'bounces', have it explode into some sort of large area effect collision function, such as the FO collision, fireball or the AdvLightTrailingJav collision [which spawns a lightning enchanted circle of charged bolts]. Works great as a monster skill too. Run!! :D

......

Also, do not be smart and don't set CollideType to anything other than 0 for a missile that has the LF collision, in an attempt to make it do damage on hit. It will do the LF collision when it hits that enemy [instead of at the end of its range], and attempt to shoot a bolt at the nearest other enemy [that's how LF works...]. If there is none, the spell ends there. This is not what you want. If you still want it to do damage, just use the FO movement trick above.
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Joel » Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:25 pm

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Rattlecage » Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:35 pm

WOW! You guys are smart. Now I know who to ask if I ever get stuck on a skill :mrgreen:

EDIT: How would I make a missle that bounces and gets progressively more powerful with each bounce?
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Char » Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:24 pm

okay, i will talk a bit, mostly about passive skills, since thats the field i made most things in :).

1. it is possible to give any character any passive stat through charstats.txt. you can only assign one skill though, cause there are ten slots and the barbarian already uses nine of them. you can easily change the base values for max resist all with that for example. negative aspect of passive skills: they dont refresh. meaning that if you have a passive skills that gives +1 to damage per 1 point in strength (passivestat1 = mindamage, passivestat2 = maxdamage, passivecalc1/2 = stat('strength'.acr), the damage will stay the same if you equip an item with +10 strength. it will refresh if you rejoin, though. if you make a new stat in itemstatcost.txt that gives +1% damage per point in vitality for example, and set this stat to 1 via auto-passiveskill, it should work, though.

2. as we can see from this, passive skills are not very good to make dynamic things. for that, we can use auras. the negative aspect is that we have to give each character an item with "aura when equipped", which doesnt look all that good. but it works. the aura refreshes its stats every [perdelay] frames. it should also be possible to add passive stats that dont refresh in addition to the aurastats. for some reason, the auras dont seem to refresh if the stat drops to zero, no idea why, but i think that can be solved somehow (be creative ;)). of course, set the aura range to zero.

3. the skill modifier doesnt work on monsters, nor does the oskill modifier work. but the aura modifier works, and thats totally beautiful. you set the range to zero and add whatever you want, it will also refresh. you can do a lot of funny things with this, i was able to implement the random monster immunity system described here nearly exactly as described, totally sofcoded (!!), you can see screenshots here, here and here. in 1.09d, i had a code editing solution, but that had the problem that the immunities didnt display and they re-rolled if you used a town portal and came back then.

4. if you need randomization (there is no random function in the calc fields in skills.txt, is there?), you can use a very funny trick. if you need a random number between 1 and 6, use
aura [auranumber] 1 6
and you get your randomized number in the aura level. i used this for my monsters, they get random numbers between 1 and 36, and later on i split it up into two digits using a number system to the base six. this way, you can even get more than one random number and use one of them as your skill level. aura levels up to 5000 or so work for sure (you need to modify itemstatcost.txt for that), i think they work up to 4 billion, although i didnt test.
of course, this doesnt work for normal skills :(.

5. if you want to make a passive skill that changes a stat based on itself in some way, you can introduce a buffer stat, set the buffer stat to [calculation based on [stat]] and set the stat itself to [calculation based on [stat - [bufferstat]]]. this is of course only needed for aura calculations since passive skills dont refresh anyways. but if you dont do this for aura calcs on stats based on themselves, the stat will jump around very wild.

6. if you want to have a formula used in several of your skills, you can use a new skill called "formula1" or so, write the formula into the calc1 field, and use skill('formula1'.clc1) instead of the formula itself in all the other skills. you can change the global formula quite easy later.

7. calculation fields are limited in length, i think to 255 bytes. but if you really have long calculations, you can distribute them over several fields using the technique described in point 6.


now i have told you all my tricks, and my mod wont be anything unique anymore :(.

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by kingpin » Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:34 pm

I have added this as topic as sticky now. It contains already a lot of nice information ;)

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by 54x » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:31 am

I should have posted it as a sticky myself, but by the time I was halfway through my usual posting phase I'd forgotten that I'm now a moderator *rolls eyes*

After a bit of continued discussion about important information to be added here, I'll edit my original post to include all of your reference material :)
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Joel » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:07 am

Maybe a sumup of the various calc field code can be handy ... not speaking of ln12 or so but the various skill(''.lvl), stat(''.accr) etc ...
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Rattlecage » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:32 pm

I have a question, is s HitPar2 for Lightning fury the max number of targets?

EDIT: Stupid filters...
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by 54x » Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:04 am

@Joel: Yes that would definately be a good idea, but so would listing the functions of ln12, and dm12. I the was originally that we have a list we can refer people to in case of any general questions about 1.10 skills. So no matter how nerbie-ish it might seem, it's probably a good idea to have it explained so we can reference people to it. After all, it's no real problem to ignore things you already understand :)
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by NewbieModder » Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:14 am

I also think a list of the various CltDoFunc/ServDoFunc and CltHitFunc/ServHitFunc from missiles.txt would be a very useful resource. I only know a few.

An example would be like this (If you made a sticky starting it, feel free to put this in it, with any corrections if i'm wrong)

pCltHitFunc: 30
pServHitFunc: 29
Used By Frozen Orb
Spawns a nova of HitSubMissile1's. Very effective for skills that explode. Make sure "AlwaysExplode" Is enabled!
Known Problems/Quirks: Doesn't seem to explode on collision with walls.
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Joel » Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:56 am

Well, the missiles.txt works like the old misisle table in DGame.dll.
By this time, noone learn that 0x6FDC9540 was FO move function ..

So, people have to be smart, think a few and se that hitfunc x and dofunc y does what the missile they have do normally.

One correction on some nasty one like the hit/Do func of ShockFieldInAir aetc ... Their behavior is not so nice

@54X : meaning of lnxy etc ... is explained in misscalc and skillcalc ... so if someone need them, they should be able to read them from the files :D
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Vendanna » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:31 am

yup for example I only found a missible capable of hit only demons (aka Holy Bolt) and that was the only way I found to make a "Sanctuary" aura for demons.

it is enough for my Exorcist creature for the white mage, but is not a true aura (using nova functions), but at least had knockback effects.

I will post how I do it later in this post, maybe anyone find a way to do it better after I explained how I did it.
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by 54x » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:46 am

My intention for the topic was to have a thread we can point to for general questions about skills- saying 'look in the text files' in a reference thread isn't very helpful :)
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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Kraj » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:04 am

And I might add that a reference with what the various movement and collision functions for missles and skills would be tremendously helpful since most skill effects are combinations of four variables (skill movement/collision, missle movement/collision) it is tough to figure out which part has the behaviour you want, and trial-and-error testing often produces no results. Not to mention that some functions have parameters which have to be further deciphered.

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Re: [1.10] Collective Skills thread

Post by Acromatic Aria » Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:04 pm

I just noticed earlier that states.txt is limited to 256 entries. If you exceed that amount you'll get a warning message. There's a simple code fix to remove that warning, but if you try to apply a state beyond 255, the value will roll over (I've already tried increasing the Send Parameter bits and Save Parameter bit entries for states in ItemStatCost.txt but it didn't work). There're already 181 entries in that file, and 75 isn't a whole lot if you create a state for any skill that's a shapeshift, aura, passive, curse, warcry or shield skill plus any non-skill states for new potions or shapeshifting or recoloring items that have a state.

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