Mod Release: Black Razor

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 07, 2017 3:06 pm

JDS" wrote: But what about a sorceress that wants to use a hammer and Enchant? :) Or a necromancer that wants to go to battle in heavy armor and a scythe, leading his army of undead into battle?
True, i guess it comes down to core ideological principles. Like for example, i prefer more realistic approach. I prefer a class to stay in its meant role and i like to see builds options within that role, while you say that you would like to see a Necro with Heavy Armor, totally respectable.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by bleedingapathy » Sun May 07, 2017 7:57 pm

I have one question what does energy do besides give you mana? you have quite more elaborate descriptions of the other stats but nothing for energy.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Sun May 07, 2017 8:02 pm

bleedingapathy" wrote:I have one question what does energy do besides give you mana? you have quite more elaborate descriptions of the other stats but nothing for energy.
Energy only gives you mana/manaregen, like in vanilla.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Mon May 08, 2017 11:29 am

I was thinking, maybe its a good idea to remove Town Portals? The reason being you can "abuse" the bosses, especially if u dont have potions.

About when the new version with the absent of skill pre-reqs will come out ? a week? a month? :)

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Mon May 08, 2017 1:21 pm

Yeah, we have thought about the TPs. I don't know if just removing them is a great idea; we need alternatives as well. Maybe more homing shrines?

We removed the skill reqs already, but we are rebalancing ranged an high tier weapons. I think we should be done next monday.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Mon May 08, 2017 3:56 pm

What about making TPs drop only? just like with pots.
OR
You can increase their price, like 5-10k gold per scroll.

EDIT:
On the other hand... since gold is kind of scarce, i dont think its a good idea to limit TPs, because many times you TP back just to store gold, when u think u might die.
And you also gather items for sale, so if TP-ing back isnt worth the price of a TP scroll, then no need to gather items for sale. If you have a lot of Identify scrolls you wont need to TP back, like 100+. But again, that wouldnt help when u want to go back to store gold.
What about removing gold dropped on death?

So to conclude

1)Remove gold dropped on death.
2)Increase the amount of Identify scrolls the book can carry to as much as possible (200+ ?).
3)Make TP scrolls drops only OR Purchasable with 5-10k gold each scroll (dunno the exact amount, just expensive :) ) OR both options.

-----

BTW is the HP regen rate for all monsters/bosses the same? Should all monsters have HP regen?...

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Mon May 08, 2017 5:18 pm

I can not change gold lost on death. The problem with higher costs is that the amount of gold increases at higher difficulties, which makes it easier to buy TP scrolls. It also doesn't solve the boss problems in multiplayer (two portals can be used indefinetely).

After releasing the next version, I will look whether we can place more homing shrines or prevent TPs next to boss monsters.

EDIT: I have not modified the regen. Did you find a particular problem with it?

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Mon May 08, 2017 5:37 pm

cool.

I came across a mini boss monster which i dont remember the name (its huge and has knock back attack), i was making many misses on him and he was regenerating life pretty quickly :D . There isnt really a problem with that. If i had learned skills or even if i had a merc with me he would prob be dead and i wouldnt even make that comment in the first place.
So its not a matter of difficulty, its mostly my taste and perception on how the monsters should be, that made me ask you that question. For example, i wouldnt make all monsters with HP rege. I would give it to monsters that fit to have hp regen. So there isnt any problem, its just my taste :) .
Modifying each monster in the game to have its own stats and skills is a hugely time consuming task.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 pm

I hate monsters that regenerate like that, but I have never encountered it in the mod. My Barb also uses no attack skill, but I mostly play in multiplayer as a tank+potion finder. Maybe your Str/Dex were too low? Tell me if it happens again, I'll also look for a solution. Or are you playing playersX?

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Mon May 08, 2017 7:02 pm

It was a Blunderbore boss

I am 26 lvl Barb.

50 STR
55 DEX
75 VIT
10 Energy

and 20 points not spend.

I havent learned ANY skills yet... im stubborn :/
I havent used Merc AT ALL and i dont intend too. I always play the mods without mercs.
No i dont play with player x.

Look, the mod isnt that hard, if from the beginning i was using merc, normal items instead of MF and i had learned skills, the game would be a lot easier, even as a pure melee. So dont make it easier :)

When it comes to regen. I just find it unrealistic and not a good way to balance the game. Because as my example shows, if the mod is hard and u have hard time killing things as a melee, the last thing u want is to reduce a hard monster to 50% hp then see it regen all its life back cause i had to retreat etc. I mean, imagine u reduce a couple of monsters to low life and then u are forced to retreat (Leap away or whatever )and when charge in again, they are full life. Its just awful.
As i said, if it fits the monster, i would like to see it have regen but giving every monster regen for the sake of "balance" is a bad design for a hard mod.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Mon May 08, 2017 9:00 pm

Doub" wrote:It was a Blunderbore boss

I am 26 lvl Barb.

50 STR
55 DEX
75 VIT
10 Energy

and 20 points not spend.


Those are good values... Strange. Please keep me updated if it happems more often.
I havent learned ANY skills yet... im stubborn :/
I havent used Merc AT ALL and i dont intend too. I always play the mods without mercs.
No i dont play with player x.


Cool. I like that. I dislike mercs, they are like an "easy mode".
Look, the mod isnt that hard, if from the beginning i was using merc, normal items instead of MF and i had learned skills, the game would be a lot easier, even as a pure melee. So dont make it easier :)
You find the mod easy? Really? Not bad. I used to die in one volley of missiles in the palace, until I introduced the resist potions. Have you completed act 2 yet?
When it comes to regen. I just find it unrealistic and not a good way to balance the game. Because as my example shows, if the mod is hard and u have hard time killing things as a melee, the last thing u want is to reduce a hard monster to 50% hp then see it regen all its life back cause i had to retreat etc. I mean, imagine u reduce a couple of monsters to low life and then u are forced to retreat (Leap away or whatever )and when charge in again, they are full life. Its just awful.
As i said, if it fits the monster, i would like to see it have regen but giving every monster regen for the sake of "balance" is a bad design for a hard mod.
Yeah, that type of combat sucks. But the mod isn't supposed to be like that anyways. Monsters are supposed to be killed quickly, and to be able to kill quickly. Drawn out fights should be rare. The only time I had a hard time killing things was when I used players 8 to balance the drops, and then forgot to turn it back off when I was done :)

I would love to hear more of what you think about the hardness. Do you often have drawn-out fights? Do you lose life quickly? How would you describe combat in general?

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Mon May 08, 2017 10:50 pm

Mercs are something i dont control and thats something i dont want. Its like having something else that kills for you, meaning it takes part of the game from you.

-----

I am gathering resist items, so when i see for example fire dmg i equip fire resist items and i deal with them. But still i havent found all the parts for all resists, i still check the shops since drops are kind of rare...

-----

I like the monster density! I dont like where there are tonz of monsters in the screen like other mods do (you guys did your mod to my taste in many ways). I like more meaningful fights. It reminds me how i used to play Diablo 1 The Hell mod (veryy hard).
So yeah, i dont rush into the monsters, most times i walk instead of running and i only run when i need to escape or catch someone :).
Also, i try to kill by pulling them into corners, doors or simply pull kill, run back and repeat the same. For range units i use maneuvers :). I pay attention to their timings and time the moments i need to move left, right etc. Or i trick them into attacking, then i charge on them asap to avoid getting hit :)
I like tactical gameplay. PPl say D2 is hack and slash, its all about smashing tonz of monsters but i think that kind of gameplay is boring.
Once i tried a mod (it was an old mod), sadly i dont remember the name to praise it. But the modder had done insane job in making the combat hard and tactical, monsters had skills, and they would hit hard! The monster density was low and sporadic, it was aggressive as well. So i was constantly running around, doing maneuvers, and playing hit and run. Sadly that mod didnt had map boarders and it was annoying to spot yourself on the map so i gave up on it.
In your mod i also try to not use pots cause i am not going to learn Find Potion skill at all.

-----

I just entered "The space" in act 2 :)
In Act 2 i didnt play much, cause i was hoping for the next patch so that i can finally learn skills (Dont want to spend 90k for reset :D ). But well, i will prob finish act 2 tomorrow.

-----

At this current state the most weak stats among STR, DEX and VIT is definitely STR!! i gave STR 20 points but the dmg difference is so little compare to what DEX or VIT offers that even if i hadnt given STR at all i would have no problem, in fact, i had given those 20 points to DEX the game would probably be easier.

Regarding chance to hit in general.
I am not sure whats going on. Some times i feel like the game bugs and i miss continuously, like 5-10 hits. Im not sure whether its bad luck or what... That being said i think the overall defense rating for monsters is kind of high. BUT, reducing a little bit the overall defense rating across the board isnt that great idea either, because some monsters feel ok having high defense rating. So what i would suggest is something more time consuming but definitely more quality work. And that is to give different monsters different defense ratings. Example, whatever is flying and seems agile, could have high defense rating, while big and slow creatures could have low defense, etc etc. This will make the mod realistic plus will erase more signs of monotonous world/monsters.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Tue May 09, 2017 7:55 am

Doub" wrote: I am gathering resist items, so when i see for example fire dmg i equip fire resist items and i deal with them. But still i havent found all the parts for all resists, i still check the shops since drops are kind of rare...
I see. Clever.
I like the monster density! I dont like where there are tonz of monsters in the screen like other mods do (you guys did your mod to my taste in many ways).
Great :) We did it for the balance between AoE and single target damage; when the monster density gets higher, it becomes impossible to balance the two. We're actually very close to the vanilla density.
I like more meaningful fights. It reminds me how i used to play Diablo 1 The Hell mod (veryy hard).
So yeah, i dont rush into the monsters, most times i walk instead of running and i only run when i need to escape or catch someone :).
Also, i try to kill by pulling them into corners, doors or simply pull kill, run back and repeat the same. For range units i use maneuvers :). I pay attention to their timings and time the moments i need to move left, right etc. Or i trick them into attacking, then i charge on them asap to avoid getting hit :)
I like tactical gameplay. PPl say D2 is hack and slash, its all about smashing tonz of monsters but i think that kind of gameplay is boring.
Once i tried a mod (it was an old mod), sadly i dont remember the name to praise it. But the modder had done insane job in making the combat hard and tactical, monsters had skills, and they would hit hard! The monster density was low and sporadic, it was aggressive as well. So i was constantly running around, doing maneuvers, and playing hit and run. Sadly that mod didnt had map boarders and it was annoying to spot yourself on the map so i gave up on it.
Cool! That sounds awesome.

At this current state the most weak stats among STR, DEX and VIT is definitely STR!! i gave STR 20 points but the dmg difference is so little compare to what DEX or VIT offers that even if i hadnt given STR at all i would have no problem, in fact, i had given those 20 points to DEX the game would probably be easier.
Wow, I see. Maybe I will increase the strength bonus for weapons a bit. It currently is at 2.5%
Regarding chance to hit in general.
I am not sure whats going on. Some times i feel like the game bugs and i miss continuously, like 5-10 hits. Im not sure whether its bad luck or what... That being said i think the overall defense rating for monsters is kind of high.
Could you try weapons with a longer range (e.g, pikes)? That way I can be sure that it is a defense rating issue, not a glitch within the engine.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Tue May 09, 2017 8:42 am

Since there are only 2 types of items, i suggest to increase the drop chance for magic/blue items a little bit cause to make the game feel a little more rewarding.

-----

On a 18 lvl rare small shield i got: 2% chance to cast lvl 1 Bone Armor when struck. This property is useless because the lvl of Bone Armor is too low, so even if u get it, its just weak. The chance itsself is low as well. One of the two could need a boost :)

-----

I play with spear lately and its the same thing. Many misses.... it does get annoying, when it starts to miss..

I am 28 lvl with:

75 base DEX +4 from my Gloves (79 total).
75 base VIT
55 base STR

I am a noob when it comes to this kind of things but i think it might have to do with the -target def properties you have added. You have added 2 of them, one is (and i have it right now on a weapon) -21% Defense from target . And that other type of property is -def per hit.
These are my noobish assumptions.
Last edited by Doub on Tue May 09, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Tue May 09, 2017 9:17 am

Doub" wrote: I play with spear lately and its the same thing. Many misses.... it does get annoying, when it starts to miss..

I am 28 lvl with:

75 base DEX +4 from my Gloves (79 total).
75 base VIT
55 base STR

I am a noob when it comes to this kind of things but i think it might have to do with the -target def properties you have added. You have added 2 of them, one is (and i have it right now on a weapon) -21% Defense from target . And that other type of property is -def per hit.
These are my noobish assumptions.
Thanks for the feedback. This is a high-priority issue for us. We'll look into it. I hope I didn't mess up the signs of the properties, causing it to increase the DEF :P

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

New mod version in first post.
  • The issue with the low probability to hit on monsters with high HP should be fixed now (I indeed messed up the sign on some of the properties, so after each hit the enemy would become harder to hit again. Thanks a lot Doub for pointing me in the right direction!).
  • No more skill pre-reqs
  • Str damage bonus for weapons strongly increased
I have also slightly decreased enemy DEF; it might be too low now. Feedback welcome.

Also be aware that you can level up a skill only every 5 levels, so at level 11 you can have level 3, and at level 16 level 4 of a skill. Skill level 20 is unlocked at level 96.
All of this obviously to balance the skill levels against the mobs and prevent characters from having maxed skills at level ~30, after which mobs get stronger but skills don't.

Attack skills of melee classes are currently totally unbalanced. I will probably rebalance them over the next few releases. My current thoughts are that they should improve the strength bonus, rather than adding on top of it. Then damage formula would be:
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus + skill improvement)) /100
rather than
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus) + skill improvement) /100

If I implement that, I might decrease the base strength bonus a bit again, since strength would considerably improve the damage of skills.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Skill pre-reqs are still here :D

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Sun May 14, 2017 2:49 pm

Seems I was having some problems updating the files in google drive. Try again now.

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Re: Mod Release: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 14, 2017 3:22 pm

Awesome!

I am back to playing Black Razor :)

Hopefully feedback soon.

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Re: Mod Release: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 14, 2017 6:45 pm

Ok just killed Duriel. 29 lvl Barb. I used 1 Healing Potion and about 12 small mana pots for Battle Cry and Concentrate.

55 base str
75 base dex +3 from gloves
75 base vit
10 base energy

10 points unspend.

I also had total of -21 dmg from enemy.
25% Faster hit recovery.
27% resist to all.

Beside the huge slow Duriel didnt do much dmg as u can see.
If you are to boost him i suggest to increase damage and chance to hit.

-----

Havent checked the STR differences yet but the reduction of monster def wasnt needed. After this patch misses were very few. Even on Duriel, i had very few misses.

Also increasing the damage and chance to hit of visually BIG monsters (i dont remember exact names now) would be good. Their dmg compare to other monsters is already high but i think it they need a little boost, because if they are slow plus melee, manipulating them because too easy, so at least they need to hit hard (i think).

-----

Im thinking of some suggestions on how to improve the effect of Energy and other attributes.
Also some other suggestions such as Stamina cost per hit and for physical skills such as Bash, Concentrate etc.

-----

Do u include the merc when u consider the balance of the mod?

For my taste the mod seems normal, maybe others will consider it hard.

What kind of ppl are u interested to attract ? or u just made the mod for your taste/fun.


Let me know what u think :)

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Re: Mod Release: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Sun May 14, 2017 7:46 pm

Doub" wrote:Ok just killed Duriel. 29 lvl Barb. I used 1 Healing Potion and about 12 small mana pots for Battle Cry and Concentrate.

55 base str
75 base dex +3 from gloves
75 base vit
10 base energy

10 points unspend.

I also had total of -21 dmg from enemy.
25% Faster hit recovery.
27% resist to all.

Beside the huge slow Duriel didnt do much dmg as u can see.
If you are to boost him i suggest to increase damage and chance to hit.
Yeah, I also think that the bosses can use more damage (like we discussed earlier).
Doub" wrote: Havent checked the STR differences yet but the reduction of monster def wasnt needed. After this patch misses were very few. Even on Duriel, i had very few misses.
Ok. It seems like the misses were entirely due to the dmg-ac bug. I'll put the DEF back to their earlier level.
Doub" wrote: Also increasing the damage and chance to hit of visually BIG monsters (i dont remember exact names now) would be good. Their dmg compare to other monsters is already high but i think it they need a little boost, because if they are slow plus melee, manipulating them because too easy, so at least they need to hit hard (i think).
I hear what you are saying, but have not decided either way yet.
Doub" wrote: Im thinking of some suggestions on how to improve the effect of Energy and other attributes.
Also some other suggestions such as Stamina cost per hit and for physical skills such as Bash, Concentrate etc.
I don't think that I can add stamina costs like that (on a technical level). I'm also not yet convinced that it is a great idea. Do you think energy is not strong enough yet? So far, people have found energy to be extremely useful (lack of potions, no mana/lvl, less +mana on items).
Doub" wrote: Do u include the merc when u consider the balance of the mod?
No, and neither the cube.
Doub" wrote: For my taste the mod seems easy, maybe others will consider it hard.
Haha. All the players in my group (including me) find it hard to stay alive. It gets a bit harder the further you go. I also noticed that your level is somewhat high. The monsters at the end of Act 3 are Level 26-30. My level 31 barb is at the beginning of Act 4.

Is it only the damage of some enemies (esp. boss monsters) that is too low, or why do you find the mod too easy? I can hardly imagine how you play without dying.
Doub" wrote: What kind of ppl are u interested to attract ? or u just made the mod for your taste/fun.

Let me know what u think :)
We play with a group of very casual players whom we know in RL, and regarding difficulty that is the target audience. There may be a little room for more difficulty, but in general it's a mod to have fun and socialize, but difficult enough to require coordination and team play (in multiplayer).
The mod has gone through a few iterations of decreasing the difficulty; the damage of many enemies used to be higher, there used to be no resist potions, enemies used to have insane AR, and of course the def bug was there. My co-players did not take that very well :D

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 14, 2017 8:27 pm

JDS" wrote: Attack skills of melee classes are currently totally unbalanced. I will probably rebalance them over the next few releases. My current thoughts are that they should improve the strength bonus, rather than adding on top of it. Then damage formula would be:
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus + skill improvement)) /100
rather than
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus) + skill improvement) /100

If I implement that, I might decrease the base strength bonus a bit again, since strength would considerably improve the damage of skills.
Im not sure i understand the formula the way its written there. I have always been bad at math. What i understand is that:
If for example the bonus from STR is 50% and a skill gives +20% more damage, then that 20% adds to that 50% and we get total of 70% bonus from STR.
And u want to change that into:
If bonus from STR is 50% and a skill gives +20% damage then its total of +60% str bonus. Because 20% of 50 is 10. So 50% + 10% = 60%.
And u do this to increase the value of STR without making the entire skill dmg OP. If i am wrong, {filtered} it, dont explain :)

The above being said i have another suggestion for skill scaling.
So the idea is that every time you lvl up a skill you get a significant amount of bonus. In order to explain it i will just get as example Leap Attack:
So at lvl 1, Leap Attack gives +100% dmg and 50% chance to hit. At lvl 2 it only gives +10% more damage and 15% chance to hit. I think this is a bad design because, what matters is only the first lvl, to get that +100% damage and the Effect. So u basically need to learn Leap Attack just once and keep your points for other skills. You u do the same with Concentrate, Bash or whatever. Learn it once, get that effect and the big bonus dmg and never touch the skill again cause the rest lvls give unworthy bonus.

So what i suggest is:
1)For skills to give the same amount of bonuses at all lvls.
For example Leap Attack at lvl 1 would give something like this: +15% damage and +10% chance to hit. Lvl 2: +15% dmg (total of 30%) and +10% chance to hit (total of 20%). This way, if you want for example your Leap Attack to be strong u actually HAVE TO invest to it, instead of just learning it once.
The same thing with Bash and the rest of similar skills.

Before i suggest the second one. I want to ask. Is it possible, no matter the max lvl of the char, to control the total number of skill points u will get? For example if in vanilla its 102 (i dont know the exact number) and you reduce it to 40 or whatever.
Last edited by Doub on Sun May 14, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mod Release: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 14, 2017 8:51 pm

I corrected myself later, its not that easy, the difficulty is more like normal. It was unfair to say easy.

If i die, its due to laziness, i basically choose to die instead of doing what u could to survive. Since HP pots are scarce and Portals arent, sometimes i prefer to just die, lol :D

My suggestion on Energy would be something like: + Magic Resist % (but as low as possible) or -curse duration or both ? :D. This would give another reason to fighter to give points to energy.

The cost of stamina per hit and skills will take the game to another lvl. For example skills like Bash, Concentrate and all the similar that dont seem magical could cost Stamina while skills such as WW, Leap Attack could cost MP. This would give room for more unique play styles (going magical Barb or "physical" ? ).

For example to boost STR you could make it give + Attack Speed or even Block Rate, just like Dex.
I have more thoughts on all attributes, but anyways, these ideas on attributes might be too much. I just felt like sharing them.

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Re: New Mod, working title: Black Razor

Post by JDS » Mon May 15, 2017 6:11 pm

Doub" wrote:
JDS" wrote: Attack skills of melee classes are currently totally unbalanced. I will probably rebalance them over the next few releases. My current thoughts are that they should improve the strength bonus, rather than adding on top of it. Then damage formula would be:
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus + skill improvement)) /100
rather than
(weapon damage) X (100 + strength X (base strength bonus) + skill improvement) /100

If I implement that, I might decrease the base strength bonus a bit again, since strength would considerably improve the damage of skills.
Im not sure i understand the formula the way its written there. I have always been bad at math. What i understand is that:
If for example the bonus from STR is 50% and a skill gives +20% more damage, then that 20% adds to that 50% and we get total of 70% bonus from STR.
And u want to change that into:
If bonus from STR is 50% and a skill gives +20% damage then its total of +60% str bonus. Because 20% of 50 is 10. So 50% + 10% = 60%.
Yup :)
Doub" wrote: And u do this to increase the value of STR without making the entire skill dmg OP. If i am wrong, {filtered} it, dont explain :)
No, the opposite. Your example calculations were correct, but the numbers were not realistic. The important thing is how the total bonus grows when one of the values increases.
Here is three more realistic examples:

Code: Select all

Base level:
Bonus from strength: 200% (that is the bonus @50 strength)
Bonus from skill: 20% 
total damage bonus: 220% (vanilla), 240% (mod)

Increase strength by 5:
Bonus from strength: 220% (bonus @55 strength,+10%)
Bonus from skill: 20% 
total damage bonus: 240% (vanilla, +9%), 264% (mod,+10%)

Increase skill damage by 20%:
Bonus from strength: 200% 
Bonus from skill: 40% (+19%, consider 120%->140%) 
total damage bonus: 240% (vanilla, +9%), 280% (mod,+19%)
As you can see, in the mod, multiplying the lower bonus by x (considering the 100%+A) also multiplies the total bonus; in vanilla, increasing the lower bonus has nearly no effect. The effect gets worse the bigger the gap between the two.

The goal is thus to make each bonus (skill and str) relevant independent of the other's value. In vanilla, the strength bonus is nearly irrelevant because the skill bonus is usually much higher. In the mod right now, the strength bonus is much higher and the skill bonus is nearly irrelevant. If I change the formula to multiply rather than add the bonuses, both values stay relevant; but I will need to tone down the values down a little bit.
Doub" wrote: The above being said i have another suggestion for skill scaling.
So the idea is that every time you lvl up a skill you get a significant amount of bonus. In order to explain it i will just get as example Leap Attack:
So at lvl 1, Leap Attack gives +100% dmg and 50% chance to hit. At lvl 2 it only gives +10% more damage and 15% chance to hit. I think this is a bad design because, what matters is only the first lvl, to get that +100% damage and the Effect. So u basically need to learn Leap Attack just once and keep your points for other skills. You u do the same with Concentrate, Bash or whatever. Learn it once, get that effect and the big bonus dmg and never touch the skill again cause the rest lvls give unworthy bonus.

So what i suggest is:
1)For skills to give the same amount of bonuses at all lvls.
For example Leap Attack at lvl 1 would give something like this: +15% damage and +10% chance to hit. Lvl 2: +15% dmg (total of 30%) and +10% chance to hit (total of 20%). This way, if you want for example your Leap Attack to be strong u actually HAVE TO invest to it, instead of just learning it once.
The same thing with Bash and the rest of similar skills.
I have thought about this, but as the calculation above shows (20% -> 40% gives only a 9% increase in the damage bonus), I don't think it would solve the problem. Compare also to the situation where you have put 7 points into the skill: now the skill gives 105% and +15% at each level, which is the same as the vanilla skill does at level 1, and with your argument, there would be no reason to put additional points. It is like salami slicing: you should not think about the individiual slice, but about the whole salami.

Before i suggest the second one. I want to ask. Is it possible, no matter the max lvl of the char, to control the total number of skill points u will get? For example if in vanilla its 102 (i dont know the exact number) and you reduce it to 40 or whatever.
I have tried to find a way to do this, but I have not found any way. (modulo code editing, which I don't do anymore). I have also tried increasing the cost of skills after a certain level, but that does not work with respec (you only get back the skill levels of your character, not the skill points you had to pay to get to that skill level). That is why Petro and I agreed to spread the levels thin, like we have.

PS: the number is 110 :P 98 from levels and 3*4 from quests

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Doub
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Re: Mod Release: Black Razor

Post by Doub » Sun May 21, 2017 1:59 pm

I believe a core game design philosophy is the meaning in things. So if what u will do will truly make STR meaningful/impactful then it should be done. Every attribute should be useful its own way and have a true impact on the mod in one way or another.
Same for skills. All your skills should be worthy and the only thing that limits you from learning them should be the points u are given, hence forcing build options.
I came across some ppl that play vanilla only on youtube..... :-| I mean, yeah maybe they do it for views since D2 is so famous and can attract ppl. But when i hear ppl say {filtered} like: Vanilla is the best and no mods are needed, i am getting :x :x :x . Vanilla has simplified stats that mean little, some useless skills, etc. But hey, these ppl claim its the best.... Fan boyzzz.
Anyywayyy.

Back to Black Razor.

I look forward to see the changes on STR and skill bonuses.

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Regarding item-isation.
I think the main reasons ppl play D2 are skills and items. Item-isation is good when u look forward to pick items, something that actually happens in BR right now, BUT i think the game will become A LOT more interesting if u do add uniques. Right now item-isation feels too simplified.
I dont know why u claim that uniques ruin build options. I mean, its up to you to design uniques, sure u can make them OP which will result uniques replacing rares but thats up to HOW you will design uniques. So i suggest u introduce uniques in the mod and i will give you some examples of uniques. BTW i dont know if you can add uniques if negative effects as well, let me know.

Examples:

A normal Broad Sword appears with 3-9 damage. Currently in Act 3 weapons can appear from about 50-80% bonus dmg as a property. But thats just one property, if u get a rare it might have -def from monster, +elemental dmg etc. So basically total of 3 properties.

Now, a unique based on Broad Sword could appear with:

+200% damage
or
+75% attack speed
or
+40% damage and -35 defense per hit from monster
or
+4 to all skills
or
+15% attack speed, +15% damage, -15 def per hit from monster, +5-10 elemental damage (gives 4 properties but lower amounts compare to a rare)

etc.

Do you consider these examples of uniques for Broad Sword OP compare to the properties with which the rare Broad Swords can appear considering they will appear with standard number of 3 properties?

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BTW, more properties on weapons are needed indeed.
I want to suggest: + Crushing Blow and + Open Wounds . BUT im not sure whether they should appear as properties on items OR its better to make them passive skills. Because for example, Open Wounds more than about 25% is meaningless, because it lasts a specific amount of seconds and if your weapon is fast, with 25% you can trigger it easily again before the effect ends.
So if you are to make it a passive skill, it would be something like 1% Open Wounds per lvl (20% at lvl 20).
But if u are to make it appear as property on items then i think its better if it appears at higher amounts, like, +7% chance to Open Wounds. 7% as the lowest amount and around 30% as the highest amount, i guess it will depend on the difficulty (norm/nigh/hell) and the weapon type. Because these kind of properties work better with faster weapons. So maybe the slower weapons will have higher % of Open Wounds compare to the faster weapons.

Same goes for Crushing Blow with the exception that MAYBE Crushing Blow could appear as a passive skill as well along with property on weapons because more than 25-30% of Crushing Blow is actually wanted, unlike Open Wounds.
So again, Crushing Blow works better the faster the weapon is but unlike Open Wounds, more than 25-30% for Crushing Blow is still ok. I believe if someone has 50% chance of Crushing Blow, he wont ask for more %.
All these being said i think u know how u can balance those based on the difficulty and the weapon type.

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Another thing u could do.
Give Open Wounds only to weapons that can cut or pierce, like: swords, daggers, spears, axes, etc. Ofc a dagger can have more chance to Open Wounds compare to a lets say an Axe, but an axe still has a chance to Open Wound, just a lot lower i guess.
So for example a Dagger/spear (weapons that use only their pierce type of attack) can appear lets say with 20-30% chance to Open Wounds, while Axes can appear with 7-12% chance to Open Wounds.
To give you my perspective. For my mod i was thinking to do this based on HOW the weapons animations looked liked in-game and what kind of swing they used for attack, and based on that i wanted to give them their properties (yes, realistic looking).
For example Blunts with no sharp edges at all wouldnt have Open Wounds at all.

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Now in Act 3. these little fackers give me a hard time. They are annoying. well done ! So its definitely not easy.

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With Barb the chance to Block doesnt appear, is it normal ( didnt notce if i actually BLock or not....).

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Regarding my feedback on Duriel and general monster defense.
I dont know if i told u but i did most of Act 2 with 75 base DEX and a weapon that gives -21% monster def. So i mean, maybe they dont need that much boost on their def? dunno. Lets see how i do in Act 3.

Also, dont boost Duriels dmg too much, his slow is already PAINFUL :D

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