New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

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Clersius
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:10 am

:rotf: Nine Mist charms?! That's awesome, sokol! That really made me laugh. :D You certainly have a well-rounded bunch of characters, don't you? At this rate, you should get them all to level 10,000 within a couple of days of each other. :twisted:

Rahhja, I had not seriously thought about what you mentioned until you mentioned it. That is truly a gargantuan problem. I guess if players on bnet can make hundreds and even thousands of runs without static maps, perhaps we can as well. It's not going to be pretty, but let's hope it is at least doable. Please let me know if you have any EUREKA!! moments, and I will do likewise. *puts the problem in the High Priority Subconscious To-Do Basket*

Lust is currently level 85 and just entered Act III. I'll post a real update later.

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:25 pm

Calypso decided that, in order to not get too far ahead of my other characters she would kick the bucket. She is practically immune to physical damage with her shield charm and a -145 physical damage amulet (crafted from 7 2 of each tc) She had activated all the way points up to the inner cloisters. She is only level 37, but her charged bolt was really helping her slash through everything (+10 to skills: 4 from witch's orb, 2 from ammy, 4 from 4 crystal charms)

My Druid is coming up next, I am pretty sure he will do really well.

EDIT
----------------
Lol or just die. Serves me right for having 3 healer CHoMs and no Shield CHoMs.

Code: Select all

Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Artemisia       Amazon          26               2
Clytemnestra    Assassin        55               2
Rasputin        Necromancer     17               2
Xerxes          Barbarian       26               2
Leonidas        Paladin         12               2
Calypso         Sorceress       37               2
Kalchas         Druid           47               2
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 220    Multiplier: 9.986    Overall: 2196.920
Last edited by sokol815 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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drconfused
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by drconfused » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:30 pm

A good night of playing Eerht. Started doing Matrix runs to collect zy runes and demon keys but after 15 runs I decided to press onto nightmare where I got to teleport happy and was one hit killed by a black rogue. Lesson learned. Next time around back to doing some normal Matrix runs till I have collected enough Zy runes to build some relics.

Code: Select all

Player: drconfused
Amazon: 	        Eno. 	        Level 28, 	2 deaths -Kobold, Tombrat
Assassin:	        Owt.          Level 20, 	2 deaths - Archer, Mushhead
Necromancer:	Eerht. 	Level 233, 	2 deaths -dark one, Black Rogue
Barbarian: 	        Rouf.   	Level 20, 	1 deaths - ogre demon
Paladin: 	        Evif. 	        Level 20, 	1 deaths - tomb rat
Sorceress:	        Xis. 	        Level 17, 	1 deaths - fallen
Druid: 		Neves. 	Level 30, 	1 deaths. -Pecker

Multiplier: 9.990
Overall score: 3676.32

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Rahhja
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Rahhja » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:25 am

Not having had a Eureka moment as of yet, I started doing Mephisto runs. A little painfull but not too bad yet. I've done 7 of them and I'm at level 158 (13 Zy runes so far). I figure once I get enough to make an artifact things will go a little quicker...each run takes me about 20 minutes on average. My damage is a little lacking so my first artifact will be a ZY-El Victory bow. I already have the crafted ceremonial bow waiting in the stash. After that I'm not sure. If I'm at 255 then I will make Oath/Word RW's and head to Act4.

Fiorna Vie stats

Level: 158
Health: 7544
Mana: 2316
Defense: 5174
Dmg: Magic Arrow: 2800 Multi-Shot: 1900
Rings: CTC Hydra; CTC Decrepify
Charms: Phoenix; Shieldx2, Master, Healer; 4soc quad with std skulls; 4soc quad with mouse tails.
Sailor Moon poster
Crafted belt w/life /level

Edit: Merc is level 108 and has pretty crappy equipment. 1 Hydra ring and 1 Static Field ring.

The rest of my equipment is a bit outdated and will be replaced/upgraded as soon as resources allow.

Edit#2: Now level 200 with 21 Zy runes. When I hit 25 I will make my bow then run Meph until level 255.

Edit#3: Just made this bow

Clersius
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:59 am

That is a mighty fine bow you have there, Rahhja! That should enable Ms. Vie to speed up her runs considerably. Is she doing her runs at p16? Do you find that the Hydras have a chance to contribute anything to the fight, and do you find that the Decrepify helps her very often?

drconfused, did Eerht create much of a stockpile to help his brothers and sisters with their journeys, or did he focus more on progression?

----------------------
Lust the Barbarian
Eager to at least have the choice to make better runewords, Lust set out to slay the Evil Demon Queen, Andariel, and thus finish Act I. Contrary to the urgency he felt to accomplish this goal, he set p8 instead of p1, hoping to gain a few levels in the process.

One of the primary reasons why he wanted to gain some levels was that he had made a few uncommon cube scrolls, amongst which was one for a Shard of Accuracy. He was literally salivating at the thought of all the extra blood he would be able to shed once he socketed that beauty.

When he reached level 50, just after entering the Jail, Level 1, his damage spiked up over 1000 points to reach 1700-2600. He figured that that the increase would help his measly 3% life leech be a little more effective, even with the overabundance of unleechables inhabiting the dank halls beneath the Monastery.

He eventually made his way down to the bottom of the Monastery, where he quickly brought about Andariel's Death.

Without wasting a moment, he took the Caravan to the desert and dove into the Sewers, eager to continue on his adventure. Despite wanting to get to Act II in order that he might have an easier time making a few choice runewords, the only one he actually created while there was a Brambles runeword in a pair of basic Chain Gloves. He used a Kiwi Seed as the Gmj.

He played through most of the Act at p8 and p16 until he got into Duriel's Chambers themselves. He over-committed himself right off the bat, bringing down massive hordes of Horrors, Dark Shapes, Mithril Knights, and more Dark Shapes. In droves. Dark Shapes everywhere. And then more of them! I thought he was lost, to be honest. He would run away from six or eight packs of monsters into another half-dozen, try to set a Town Portal, and get overrun again. Kill enough to make a hole, run for his life again, try to set another portal, get overrun. There was no escaping the hordes! Just when it looked like he might have a shot, Duriel would show up, Holy Freeze him, and he would once more be overrun.

Finally and at last he made it through a glowing blue door, panting heavily, stunned at having come so close to his mortal end yet living to tell the tale. He actually resorted to buying Full Rejuvenation potions (gasp!) before heading back. First, however, he set p1 to have a better chance of survival. He would have preferred to restart and try being more cautious, but with regenerating maps, there was no way he was going to reset the True Tomb of Tal Rasha!! *shiver*

At p1, it was still a hard slog, but no more critical points in the story of finishing Act II. At level 85, he graduated therefrom, immediately taking the boat to Act III. He kept the setting at p1, and didn't even try to clear out any of the surrounding jungle. He simply ran through as fast as he could, dodging and weaving, ducking and running, avoiding combat whenever Barbarianly possible. His fingers clenched and his palms itched at the thought of all that salty, warm blood that he was missing, but he had his sights set on bigger things, and did not allow himself to be swayed.

He was in for a rude awakening when he hit Lower Kurast. With less than 5000 life and a mere 17% blocking (his dexterity had been forsaken in favour of vitality and strength), Cyclopi were not the only things ruining his day, but they were certainly doing their part! One hit, 3k life gone, and they always come in pairs. That makes it very difficult to take them on and remain alive. Slowly but surely, with lots of potions consumed, he made his way through Lower Kurast, the Bazaar, Upper Kurast, and finally Travincal.

At this point, done with Travincal, ready to head down and face Mephisto for the first time, he realized that he was woefully unprepared for anything in the Durance, much less Mephisto himself. In light of this, he decided to do some runs in Travincal and Canyon of the Magi to pump himself up to level 100 in order that he might make use of Frenzy.

Throughout his progression in Acts II and III, he had been saving different kinds of belts, hoping to get nine of either plated belts or heavy belts so that he could upgrade to an elite version and make his Life BoCL belt. Sadly, he found out that Asheara sells both of those (though plated belts are much more uncommon), and he didn't have to wait so long and go through so much pain in order to reach that goal. Anyway, he finally made his Life BoCL Colossus Girdle. He added three “hp to any belt” scrolls and a Shard of Leviathan to it in order to boost his life even more.

His goal of reaching level 100 didn't take him all that long. To celebrate, he fashioned a Phoenix runeworded Phase Blade to dual wield with his trusty Rixot's Keen, which he had been using since level 1. Once he collects more Crystal Swords, he will replace the Rixot's with another Phase Blade. Maybe with a Phoenix in it, possibly something else.

This definitely marked his surge point, and despite his still-low life, his game took off like a ramjet! He set p16 and smoked the entire Durance in no time at all. He killed off Mephisto at level 123.

With an eye towards starting his Mephisto runs ad nauseum, he made another runeword, this time a Wealth of Knowledge in a Plate Mail, using a Grape Seed as the Gmj. He added Cannot be Frozen to it, and was all set to try out the first of his runs, though unsure of just how they would pan out. Rahhja's horror story of 20-minute runs were making Lust's blood run cold, or at least sub-tepid.

His first rerun, from restart to restart, took four minutes total, plus another three minutes to unload his stuff. During this run, he killed the Council and sifted through their piles of trash looking for the good stuff. He did the same for the next run, which took three minutes total. The next two runs took five minutes each, as both times he had to run halfway around Durance 2 before finding the stairs down. After the sixth or seventh run, he stopped killing the Council. That saved some time in the killing, in the sorting, and in the unloading. His next few runs ranged from two minutes to five minutes. The two-minute runs occurred when the stairs down were right around the corner from the waypoint! Only three times has he seen that happen, and all three occurred within a five-game window. Two runs in a row they were right next to each other, then two “normal” runs, then another run where they were right next to one another. Good stuff.

I'm not saying that he could rival a Sorceress with a 1-mana Teleport and loads of FCR, but with his phenomenal run speed and ability to Leap past roadblocks, it takes very little time for him to find the stairs down into Durance 3.

All in all, the prognosis is good. It seems that the runs will take 1.5-2.5 times longer than non-reset maps would take, which is a lot better than I figured it would be. All of my calculations for Happy in the HC Septathlon should carry over to Lust. Therefore, because the runs take 2.5 times longer, I can divide the number of full Zy-El Scrolls needed for the first partial %EG jewel by 2.5 and that will be the break-even point between runs for Zy runes and runs for gold. That is still a lot of Mephisto runs to do, but once the partial jewel is done, he can move on and start running Blood Witches in Act V. Ka-ching!

Lust is currently running around with 8k+ life, 17k+ with Battle Orders, doing 9k-11k damage.

Good luck to all of you with your characters!

Code: Select all

Name              Class             Level          Deaths
-------------------------------------------------------------
Pride             Amazon             40               1
Sloth             Assassin           31               1
Avarice           Necromancer        49               1
Lust              Barbarian         152               0
Wrath             Paladin             1               0
Gluttony          Sorceress           1               0
Envy              Druid               1               0
-------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths: 3   Levels: 275   Multiplier: 9.997   Score: 2749.175

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Rahhja
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Rahhja » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:06 am

Hats off to you Clersius for some great times on your Meph runs. Best I have yet to do is just a bit over 5 minutes. I seem to have problems most of the time finding the entrance to Durance lvl3. Also, the trains I have behind me are worthy of the Estate of Unrest circa 2000.

To answer your questions...

I like having the Hydras for my Amazon. They tend to finish off weaker mobs plus any that have been Static Fielded down to almost nothing. The jury is still out on the Decrepify ring though. I'm leaning to go a different path because mobs don't seem to stay alive long enough to be of any real use.

Edit: got to lvl 255. Made a Oath of Amazon in some serpentine armor and made a Word of Amazon in some greaves. Now standing at 12k health and 21k damage with guided arrow. Moving on to Act4.

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:03 am

Got some Good leveling done with my Amazon, Artemisia over the weekend. She killed Andarial at level 44. She is now level 46, but died attempting a stupid feat with her new ctc hydra ring. I was getting really excited, as her killing speed just ramped up recently. Looks like it is back to the Assassin now, she is pretty decent for Act 1, though. her CB traps are getting stronger.

It is amazing to see you guys at levels in the hundreds already... I better quit dieing and get a move on.

Code: Select all

Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Artemisia       Amazon          46               3
Clytemnestra    Assassin        55               2
Rasputin        Necromancer     17               2
Xerxes          Barbarian       26               2
Leonidas        Paladin         12               2
Calypso         Sorceress       37               2
Kalchas         Druid           47               2
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 240    Multiplier: 9.985    Overall: 2396.400

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bro
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by bro » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:41 am

[center]Hulk the Barbarian[/center]

I started to play my Barbarian. Today I've much more time and he has good leveling. I get very nice charm from Common Cube Scroll Lapis Tall Charm (of Avatars). It gave him HUGE boost and he is capable to clear Blood Moor, Den of Evil, Cold Plains, Burial Grounds and even Stony Fields at players 64! This give him high speed of leveling and he is 35 at the moment clearing ONLY Blood Moor, Den of Evil, Cold Plains, Burial Grounds and partialy Stony Fields. For my Assassin from Uncommon Cube Scroll I get this nice star Shogukusha's Blood Star of Lightning. But probably I'll play with Barbarian a lot longer than my Assassin could. I get Viper Heart from 2's of Hearts and it's waiting for my Barbarian to wear it. Anyway thanks to summons it give a lot of adventage over previous characters. Mainly Dire Wolves do the job.

Tell me... Why those wolves eat corpses? Are they healing themselfs or something?

EDIT:
Hulk found 3rd Elixir. Minor ChOM created. From upgrading recipe I made 2 Uncommon Cube Scrolls "chp amethyst to gr charm" which gave me very nice charms Grand Charm of Strenght and
Grand Charm of Winter. Hulk made amulet from 2's of Spades
Ghoul Mark which he's wearing. He's 40 at the moment and on road to save Cain.

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Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Valkyrie        Amazon           1               1
Echo            Assassin        51               1
Doctor Strange  Necromancer      1               1
Hulk            Barbarian       40               0
Thor            Paladin          1               0
Storm           Sorceress        1               0
Wolverine       Druid            1               0
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 96     Multiplier: 9,997     Overall: 959,712

Clersius
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:28 am

Very nice items you are discovering, bro! Keep on rockin' the Act down. :D Dire Wolves eat corpses to improve their damage output.

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Rahhja
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Rahhja » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Fiorna has finally met her maker. She was wondering through the Suicide Sanctum and got mobbed by Darth Smalls.

RallosZek the Assassin is next.

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Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Fiorna Vie      Amazon           291             1
Rallos Zek      Assassin         1               0
Innoruuk        Necromancer      1               0
Tribunal        Barbarian        1               0
Mithaniel Marr  Paladin          1               0
Solusek Ro      Sorceress        1               0
Tunare          Druid            1               0
----------------------------------------------------
Total: 297     Multiplier: 9.999     Overall: 2969.703

Clersius
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:21 pm

Fiorna had quite a run! How much life did she have whilst braving the SS? Good luck with the god of War. :D Did Fiorna Vie leave a nice, plump stash with which to make her companion's lives easy and carefree?

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Rahhja
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Rahhja » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:35 pm

She had 14k health when she bought it. She died more from not paying attention then anything else.

My next few gods will have a pretty easy time of it.

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:29 pm

During his Mephisto runs, Lust happened across two different unique Barbarian helms, one of which he decided to use for, quite likely, the remainder of his career (after removing the Knockback, of course). After three days of runs, Lust finally constructed his first partial %EG jewel! It's not fabulous, as he only used 14 scrolls on it, but it enabled him to kiss the Durance goodbye for fairer fields abroad. He had one more task to accomplish before leaving, and that was to make another run for some gold so that he could make seven Cube Locks and bring his belt's Life BoCL multiplier up to the max of 31.875. He thus finished up in Act III and started Act IV at level 223, using a setting of p32.

Everything went swimmingly well, with Komodos all over the place! Those things are seriously sweet experience, and a couple of handy experience shrines allowed for some yummy leveling sprees. Lust equipped a rare bow with maximum damage BoCL in expectation of Oblivion Knights, and there were a ton of them in the Sanctuary. However, it turns out that he did not need it. His life leech and his 50% damage reduction mitigated most (not all, to be sure) of the return damage from the Hated Curse, allowing him to take out the OKs themselves when they cursed him. By that time, the curse would drop, and he could get on with the rest of the crowds.

The Sanctuary clear, Diablo spawned and Lust started right in on him. Once again, Diablo's block rate is just absolutely, mind-bogglingly, annoyingly high, but his life dropped to less than a quarter in about 30 seconds. However, it turns out that Lust could not actually kill Diablo, even after 20 minutes of beating on him with Frenzy, hoping that a string of lucky hits would be enough to topple him. His life would sliver, but at that point Crushing Blow is no longer effective and his regeneration at p32 was too high for the damage from the few hits Lust could land to actually end Diablo's life. Lust eventually had to go back to town and search through the stash for some form of Open Wounds to counteract Diablo's life regeneration. He ended up using Bloodrise offhand, and Diablo fell in about 20 seconds. :roll: Finished Act IV at level 261 with 19.5k/74.4k life and doing 11.3k-13.9k damage with both Frenzy and Whirlwind.

Lust used Act IV to gain a few levels, but he is not going to do that in Act V. Instead, he is going to blitz it in order that he might start the gold farming as soon as possible. He will use p1 from start to finish. Here we go!

I hope that the rest of you are having fabulous luck with your characters. Keep up the good work, everyone!

Code: Select all

Name              Class             Level          Deaths
-------------------------------------------------------------
Pride             Amazon             40               1
Sloth             Assassin           31               1
Avarice           Necromancer        49               1
Lust              Barbarian         261               0
Wrath             Paladin             1               0
Gluttony          Sorceress           1               0
Envy              Druid               1               0
-------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths: 3   Levels: 384   Multiplier: 9.997   Score: 3838.848
----------

[EDIT]

I have a hypothetical rules question for you, timmermac. I'm thinking ahead to a time when my Barbarian either dies or reaches 10k, and it is time to play the Paladin. Is it legal to use the Barbarian to craft for the Paladin, as long as he never leaves town limits? That is, can Lust fashion items for Wrath as long as nothing is done that would advance or help the Barbarian in the process?

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:06 pm

I've been wondering that, too. My Assassin is around level 220 now, having access to those high runes and higher gems would help immensely in crafting... the alternative is that we have to do the same thing with every character before they can start crafting, where we have a massive amount of say, Zy runes, but no perfect gems with which to craft cube locks... you then have to transmute chipped gems to p-gems... not looking forward to that. I think being able to use a character in-town without leaving any of the towns should be allowable. (My 2 cents about how I feel.)

My Assassin is sitting at the River of Flames in Act IV... she is currently doing mephisto runs to up her life, though. (Currently 14K) need to add another moby dick or two. I am not at home with my table, so I will post that later.

I have about 13 Zy runes sitting in my stash right now, gonna start making the elite crafted items I need to get Zy-El artifacts.

I have found (in my 12 Meph runs I have done) that at players 127 this is the average for what Meph drops:
Zy Runes: 1.5
Elixir: 2.5
Demon Keys: 1.5

I set up a nice Excel table that does all the calculations for me, I also have another field on it where I tell it how many Zy runes I have used, just for statistics sake. (already used 3) 2 for cube locks, 1 for making 2 pgems (flawless gem x 2 + elixir) = pgem [I am aware that it might be cheaper to use lower quality gems such as flawed, but I used flawless gems for the sake of time)

I'm having a lot of fun with this mod and tournament! Keep up the good work, guys.

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:57 pm

Sokol, are you sure that all of your 12 Mephisto runs were at p127? As far as I can tell from my thousands of runs over the last few months, Mephisto never drops less than three Elixirs if the setting is at p16 or higher.

Which of the Artifacts are you planning to make, other than the Requiem?

It sounds like you are making outstanding progress with your Assassin. I'm glad that you are having so much fun with this mod! It is great to play in these tournaments with other people who love the game as much as you do, isn't it? :D Good luck getting her life up and on the progression that will soon follow!

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:39 pm

Clersius" wrote:Sokol, are you sure that all of your 12 Mephisto runs were at p127? As far as I can tell from my thousands of runs over the last few months, Mephisto never drops less than three Elixirs if the setting is at p16 or higher.
I do the runs at players 8 until mephisto has spawned, then swap it to 127 before he dies. out of the 12 runs I have done, He has dropped 3 elixirs every time except for two: the first run, he dropped 4 (and 3 zy runes... good omen?) and the 3rd run, he dropped 0. averaging out to 2.83. (My numbers were a little off in my previous post, I was not remembering correctly.)

My current numbers are:
1.33 Zy runes per run (small sample size makes sense... according to Al-T should be around 1.5)
2.83 elixirs per run
1.67 demon Keys per run
Clersius" wrote:Which of the Artifacts are you planning to make, other than the Requiem?
As far as artifacts go, I currently have a helm that I have been crafting all my 'ass1' skill scrolls into so it is up to +7 to assassin skills... but the requiem has all those massive additions to stats that I really need to be a good Martial Assassin. My next 2 would probably be The vambraces and mirrored boots. I currently have +13.5 Life/level from my Belt (2 cube lock craftings + original), so that is probably going to be one of the last things I replace. My Amulet is what has been getting me through everything. I will probably just use my Charsi imbue to make the diadem, then the recipe to make the Zy-El item is actually pretty relatively cheap beyond that. (In my travels, I have collected around 100 of the rare jewel to unique jewel scrolls, and I make a new unique jewel or 2 every time I run mephisto... and another 3 scrolls for unique jewels drop.... the council is Ideal for scroll farming.)

I kind of just want to make my First %EG jewel first (probably around 5400% with 6 zy-el scrolls, but that would take... another 70 meph runs or so(using fragments method: [(Zy-El Scroll fragment + Elixir + perf Gem -> random ZY-El Scroll fragment.) ]). I am just wondering... is 108,000 gold from a single high-gold monster drop(e.g. council members) going to be enough for me to do gold runs instead? Does anyone know the point of %eg where it is better to do gold runs than mephisto runs?

It really is fun to play with other people who are all doing the same thing you are. It lets you really figure the mod out (if you haven't gotten that far in it, before)

EDIT:
Forgot to post my character table!

Code: Select all

Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Artemisia       Amazon          46               3
Clytemnestra    Assassin       224               2
Rasputin        Necromancer     17               2
Xerxes          Barbarian       26               2
Leonidas        Paladin         12               2
Calypso         Sorceress       37               2
Kalchas         Druid           47               2
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 409    Multiplier: 9.985    Overall: 4083.865

Clersius
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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:54 pm

I would be very surprised if you ever replace your belt - nothing comes close to a Life BoCL belt! That is truly a fine amulet, and you were quite fortunate to get it as early as you did. It will probably be a while before you replace that, as well.

Gathering the Zy runes to make 6 full Scrolls will probably take you closer to 6 * 21 / 1.5 = 84 runs, on average. As for whether that will allow you to switch to gold runs, it seems unlikely that 5400% EG would be enough. The break-even point is different for every player, and for every character for that player. In order to figure it out mathematically, you first need to know how long an average Mephisto run takes (you need a substantial sample size to get an accurate picture), and you need to know where you are going to do your gold runs, how long an average gold run takes, and the average base amount of gold you get per run. Finally, figure out what a Mephisto run for Zy runes is worth.*

With all that data in hand, you can set it all up in your spreadsheet to figure out how much %EG it takes to reach the break-even point. :mrgreen: I went through this whole process for Happy in the HC Septathlon, and it was well worth the effort. For him, it turned out to be something like 15,000% EG, but that was without regenerated maps. Again, it is highly unlikely that you playing your Assassin is comparable to me playing my Barbarian or Al playing his Sorceress - the numbers are likely to be wildly different. [As a caveat, I do not mean to imply in any way that you are a stronger player than I am, or a weaker player, or that Assassins are stronger than Barbarians in this scenario, or weaker. I mean only what I typed - that they are likely to be different, and therefore not comparable.]

However you proceed, I commend your Spirit of Fun and Adventure, and wish you heaps of success!



*For instance, I figured that a Scroll was worth (rounded) 26.8 million gold. That is the cheapest you can make them, using flawed skulls/Elixirs to make fragments. If it takes 21 Zy runes plus 3 fragment rerolls (318k for the perfect gem plus 75k for the elixir, times 3, equals (rounded) 1.18 million gold) to make a Scroll, then here is an equation to model that:

26.8M = 21z + 1.18; z = 1.22M

By extension, a Mephisto run is worth 1.5 * 1.22M = 1.83M gold.

I would recommend that you not use rounded numbers in your actual calculations. You may want to change the worth of a Scroll to be 31.2M (flawless skulls/Elixirs to make fragments) or 63.2M (perfect skulls to make fragments), or even 99M (perfect skulls/Zy runes to make a full Scroll directly, no fragments). You also may want to change the number of rerolls per scroll, or you may have a much better way to model the worth of a Scroll, and therefore the worth of a Zy rune, and therefore the worth of a Mephisto run. If so, please share it. :D

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by timmermac » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:58 pm

Clersius" wrote:
I have a hypothetical rules question for you, timmermac. I'm thinking ahead to a time when my Barbarian either dies or reaches 10k, and it is time to play the Paladin. Is it legal to use the Barbarian to craft for the Paladin, as long as he never leaves town limits? That is, can Lust fashion items for Wrath as long as nothing is done that would advance or help the Barbarian in the process?

As long as it falls under my version of the "used underwear" rule that I have in the first post of the topic, then it's legal.
I'd like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS. - Colonel O'Neill

I'm telling you, Teal'c. If we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna' lose it.
"Lose it. " It means, "Go crazy. " "Nuts. " "Insane. " "Bonzo. " "No longer in possession of one's faculties. " "Three fries short of a Happy Meal. " "Wacko. "

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:59 pm

Thank you for the response, timmermac, and for the clarification, in specific. :)

Having not seen an update from you in a while, I hope that your interest is not waning? It was nice to read about your progress (and everyone else's, to be sure!), and I look forward to your next update. :cool:

Al, have you completely lost the taste for mind-numbingly boring Mephisto runs? I hope you are doing well, at whatever you are doing. I look forward to your next update, as well! :mrgreen:

-------------

Lust is in Act V running the Throne of Destruction for that sweet, shiny gold. It is a lot more fun (for me, that is) doing runs where Mr. Barbie-pants can actually kill more than one mob without it being a waste of time. He is doing fabulously well, and is about 2/7ths of the way to his full %EG jewel, creating the fragments as he goes. About 1/7th a day, if I push, and I'm fairly certain that I can't push for seven days in a row. :roll: I'm no spring chicken, after all. :P He/I doesn't/don't want to get stuck having to do all that combining at once, as that would be serious grounds for shooting oneself in the head. He is not making the full Scrolls yet, because the more fragments he produces, the fewer rerolls per Scroll are required, due to the Law of Averages.

To be honest, I am going about this rather stupidly. It would be a lot smarter to make another half jewel, then switch over to making full Scrolls rather than fragments, or at least upgrade to using perfect skulls instead of standard skulls. Good idea, self! Another day at the millstone, then, and he can make the half-jewel.

Also, it's about time I revisited the HC scene, see what those Dwarven Hoodlums are up to... :o Perhaps after the half-jewel is finished.

Good luck to each one of you on your progress!

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by timmermac » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:31 am

I'll be playing Saturday-Tuesday part time, with the other part spent playing Magic on my computer. The SGC hasn't been quite as fortunate in avoiding the need to have the Nox resurrect them as the rest of you have in staying alive. I'll have to see about changing their luck going forward.
I'd like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS. - Colonel O'Neill

I'm telling you, Teal'c. If we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna' lose it.
"Lose it. " It means, "Go crazy. " "Nuts. " "Insane. " "Bonzo. " "No longer in possession of one's faculties. " "Three fries short of a Happy Meal. " "Wacko. "

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by drconfused » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:39 am

So after having played Eerhtt to the higher levels it was a quick succession to death for both Ruof (lvl 36) and Evif (32).. So when Xis started I was sure to take the time and equip her right and keep a golem summoned until I was able to teleport, then it was mindless run after mindless run to obtain zy runes from Mephisto which eventually turned into a Zyels Requiem, Zyels Decorum and Zyels Idea with the remainder of my scrolls going into %EG jewels.. by the time all was said and done Xis was sporting a hefty GF of 28613% The matrix was becoming a boring hunting grounds so I started testing the other Insanity levels and soon found that my fire wall and hydras would take out basic immortals even on players level 50 in short order but would not work on elite immortals at all.. I farmed and farmed gold and scrolls and charms and any rare jewelery that dropped, but it was finally a darth small that got under Xis's defenses and sent her victorious rain to an untimely end at level 350.
In the midst of morning Xis, Neves was quick to run out to the field and start using a bit of new equipment from the hordes that Xis had layed up in the lair, but to sure of himself he fared no better then his brothers Ruof and Evif and made it to lvl 32 before dying at the hands of a Mushhead... :(
Eno took full advantage of the hordes of treasure and spent a couple couple days preparing slowly by crafting the appropriate treasures and not spare anything, so having rolled numerous secret and arcane scrolls she equipped herself well and continue to lay waste to the hordes of demons and undead even to her current level of 162. She just finished laying waste to the king of demons Baal and is going to run the Matrix for some levels until she decides to strike out and hunt down the immortals. I am slowly crafting her a %EG jewel so it feels worthwhile picking up all those pesky piles of gold once again.

Its been a pleasure reading your guys updates. I never have got as deep into Zyel and its intricate crafting system until this tournament and I really am impressed!

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:08 pm

Nice to hear that you are enjoying the tournament, drconfused. :D We are lucky to have you here with us, battling the forces of Hell at our alternate-plane-of-reality-virtual-sides! Keep up the great work, eh?

@timmermac: Don't worry, each time the Nox have to bring one of your dead back to life, it is only 10 points off of your final score, if you get all of your characters to 10,000... feel better? :twisted:

-------------

Lust the Barbarian finished up his second half-jewel using flawless skulls, which he should have been using the last two days as well. :roll: Hours of my life gone for no reason. :x Oh well, at least it saved some time at the end. He put 37 Scrolls into it, and that should bring his gold per hour up to around 240 million. That is high enough to use perfect skulls to make the full %EG jewel, and then goodbye to fragments!!

His levels aren't much to look at, and I think that is because he has been yo-yoing between p16 and p8, trying to find the most efficient setting for not having to sift through piles of items to find the gold. The best solution will probably be to leave it at p16 and then harden my will in order that I might walk away from a garbage heap rather than spend minutes sifting through it. Write it off as a loss and move forward!

I think I need a small break from clicking together Scroll fragments, so I will spend a few hours in an environment where there are hundreds of Scrolls already created – a sort of Nirvana, if you will!

Good luck to you all. :)

Code: Select all

Name              Class             Level          Deaths
-------------------------------------------------------------
Pride             Amazon             40               1
Sloth             Assassin           31               1
Avarice           Necromancer        49               1
Lust              Barbarian         371               0
Wrath             Paladin             1               0
Gluttony          Sorceress           1               0
Envy              Druid               1               0
-------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths: 3   Levels: 494   Multiplier: 9.997   Score: 4938.518

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Well, I have been playing the last couple of weeks, and I am doing quite good by my standards.
Clytemnestra (Assassin)
Continued just getting her through Mephisto Runs. It was a lot of grinding there to get enough runes to make 9 Zy-El scrolls (via fragment method) I crafted my Requiem, then a 2700% GF jewel followed by a 4500% GF jewel. I found that increasing the gold find just that much made it so much easier to actually be able to craft with the goods I earned. Having gotten the 7200% GF put on my character, running Baal would score me around 35 to 50 million gold per 20 or so minute run.

I found that this is actually faster than I run Mephisto, as I can never just get straight on to Mephisto, and always pick up tons of other stuff. So, I have done probably 20 or so Baal runs, now. the first 8 Baal Runs went to make another 8 Zy-El scrolls, which were all put into a single GF Jewel for a whopping 7200% GF. That really helped make Baal runs profitable, Sometimes Platinum dragons will drop over 800K gold (not very often that they drop much at all, though)

As far as my GF strategy has gone, I think it has worked well for me. So far I have really been doing the Fibonacci Sequence ( ...3,5,8... ) Which has been good, because it is natures way of deciding when things should be bigger. I have found that I have not felt like I was wasting my time at all when I was working on this.

After adding my new 7200% GF jewel to my inventory, I am up to a respectable 14500% GF (100% from my Amulet that I have been crafting all the Gold[1,2,3] to Amulet scrolls into)

I have now collected another 13 Zy-El Scrolls into my stash, with another 22 Zy-El Fragments (Mostly just 3,6,7s). It is weird to think that I have already consumed 17 Zy-El Scrolls, so I have made 30 so far! That is the furthest I have ever gotten. All these runs have given Clytemnestra some mega leveling, giving her 494 levels now. I almost died once when I forgot to put all my charms back on after a Zy-El Scroll making session. I remembered fast enough, though.

I am now trying to decide if I want to Add the 13 scrolls, which will be the first time i did not at least double my GF, or should I wait for 26 scrolls, as that would be the ratio 8:13. I kind of feel like I should do the earlier one, as I have a Charm with 3 more open sockets for jewels waiting for more GF. I am kind of doing this with the thought that eventually, I will probably throw this gear away after I craft hopefully 2 or 3 Full GF jewels. (Never made one legitimately, yet)

Clytemnestra now has approximately 36K life and gets about 100Mil in 20 minutes doing a Baal run. (She can only hold 72Mil or so right now due to her level of 494, So lots of town trips.) I have gotten so many damage to melee, kick to boot, damage to missile scrolls and tons of Mana/Life to charm scrolls and tons and tons of +to Class skills scrolls, My other characters are going to be so happy when Clytemnestra finally kicks the bucket... that is not in the plan though. I want her to be able to do some great crafting for all my other characters, and hopefully have at least nightmare beat before she dies, so I haven't even taken her to cows yet, for fear of the immortals. Eventually, I want to be able to switch over to using piggy banks straight to full scrolls, but I think I need to make a lot more Gold/Minute for that. (120 Mil = 1 Zy-El Scroll, so I should be able to make 120 Mil in 4 minutes if I want to go that way; meaning I need 6 times my current GF: 87000%)

She currently has about +52 to Skills, Her weapons aren't putting out too much damage right now, though. (Holograms) Any suggestions on how to ramp that up higher?

Ok. Here is my table, I will keep you guys posted.

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Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Artemisia       Amazon          46               3
Clytemnestra    Assassin       494               2
Rasputin        Necromancer     17               2
Xerxes          Barbarian       26               2
Leonidas        Paladin         12               2
Calypso         Sorceress       37               2
Kalchas         Druid           47               2
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 679    Multiplier: 9.985    Overall: 6779.815

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by Clersius » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:10 pm

Sokol, you are kicking major booty!! Nice job, sir, keep up the awesome work. Don't kid yourself - you are doing quite well by anyone's standards. :)

I would personally recommend that you not use piggy banks to make full Scrolls. I know that there are proponents of such things here, but having done the math, I am not convinced that it is a sound strategy. My tests showed me that I could make full Scrolls using 5 perfect skulls and 25 Zy runes in 2 minutes on average, costing around 99M, and full Scrolls using piggy banks in 90 seconds on average (if you get a dry streak and can't find any 100M piggy banks, this average can go up in a hurry!), costing around 120M. 30 seconds saved for a cost increase of 21M. It may seem that it is a straight comparison of a 25% reduction in time cost for a 21% increase in gold cost, but that is not the case.

Making Scrolls has always been an opportunity cost question first, and an efficiency question second. It is always faster to make Scrolls using the more expensive methods, but it only makes sense to do so if the time you save can be better spent making more gold. If not, you are just wasting your resources unnecessarily.

In this case, does the 30 seconds you save enable you to make 21M more gold? The answer to that question lets you know if it is a better idea to use piggy banks, and the answer is yes if you make 2.52G gold per hour. :mrgreen:

Now, allow me to temper what I just said with this: you can, of course, use piggy banks if you want to do so! My goal is not to dictate your play style to you, but to ensure that you make the decisions you make with all the information possible. :D

As for damage, once you have obtained those sweet, sweet Holograms (for their sweet, sweet stats), you can look to other sources for actual damage. Claw Mastery is the most obvious - max that. Venom is a good source of damage, max that as well, although I would personally concentrate on Claw Mastery first. Blade Shield at high skill levels does a ton of damage as well, so don't neglect that. These suggestions are all taken (more or less) from Al-Tisaur's Assassin Playbook, and you would do well to read up on his various and sundry experiences/advice on playing the class. :)

Once those issues are seen to, you can start adding damage jewels. Shard of Atlas is ideal for that, with Shard of Accuracy not far behind. Both of them are most often obtained through uncommon cube scrolls. If you don't have access to either of those, you can megaload a crafted jewel with Sol runes - 450 minimum damage per application adds up pretty fast! Also remember that 75% of your strength and 75% of your dexterity are your primary damage modifiers, so as those go up, so does your damage. Lastly, using two Static Field rings helps a lot, as does 100% Crushing Blow. Actually, on big game, those two things will do well over 50% of all your damage, so they are quite important in the grand scheme of things.

Hope this helps, and good luck in your continuing adventures!

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Re: New tourney: The softcore rotation tournament

Post by sokol815 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:54 am

Thanks for the tips, Clersius, I think they will seriously come in handy. I went ahead and added 1 more jewel to clyemnestra with 15000 GF on it for a total of 30000% Gold find. She is a goldmine, now. She was able to produce another 8 Zy-El Scrolls and I have currently 85 more fragments (#2 keeps illuding me). Unfortunately, I thought it would be good to test out cows with her. She was doing just fine at killing cows... took out 2 immortals (Not exactly sure how, haven't dealt with them before) and then I turned away to talk with my wife for a bit, looked back and she was dead. I'm just glad she left a ton of goodies for my other characters to use.

Rasputin then got another go and reached nearly level 50 before he succumbed to the call of the beyond.

This means Xerxes the barbarian is up next, and boy is he happy! I found Gimli's axe in all Clyemnestra's trouncing about... it has 6 sockets and deals 200-600 damage!!! I kind of really want to work on my Sorceress, She will be a great GF Char once she is up and running, but I have 2 characters to go through first before I can get to her. I just hope I don't start having any cash flow problems. I don't think I will, though. Xerxes is probably going to trade some of his mist charms for posters... I have about 12 or so made right now... (including a gigantic celebrity poster of pierce brosnan.... how can anyone ever use those?!)

Anyways, I am off to resume Xerxes' journey.

EDIT:
----------------------

Xerxes died at level 46.

Leonidas died at level 32. (I really think the next time with him will work!)

My sorceress is now tearing it up at level 182. It was amazing when she hit level 120... what had previously taken 10 or so nova casts now took only 1. Her nova is now hovering right under 83k damage, I am calculating it out, I think it would be possible to get her nova damage to the 503316 damage Mark. (This would afford her maximum damage, even in Hell with the 1/2 dmg penalty) I of course will need a lot more +to skills Items.... currently at +89 to Sorceress skills with her. (Got a Mega 3 for +18 and lots of nice sor3 any armor scrolls; Also, using 8 mouse tails for +2 skills each)

Also, interesting thought experiment... Calypso is using energy shield at level 90, when it absorbs 75% of damage. the remaining 25% then gets reduced and such and finally applied to her health. Assuming that she takes 1.5% of the original damage, I have calculated that if I have +6667% damage to mana, I will, in fact, recharge her mana back to where it was before she got hit, without removing the energy shield. seeing as mega-loading an Ith can give 15 * 30 = 450% damage to mana per application: 15 ith applications could provide the requisite 6667% damage to mana (it would be 6750%). The only drawback I can see, is that the damage to mana only works on physical-melee damage. Right? would this then make her energy shield unable to fail? (assuming decent amount of life regeneration, or life potion use) Any thoughts?


Also, updated table:

Code: Select all

Name            Class          Level          Deaths
-----------------------------------------------------
Artemisia       Amazon          46               3
Clytemnestra    Assassin       563               3
Rasputin        Necromancer     49               3
Xerxes          Barbarian       46               3
Leonidas        Paladin         32               3
Calypso         Sorceress      182               2
Kalchas         Druid           47               2
-----------------------------------------------------
Total: 965    Multiplier: 9.981    Overall: 9631.665

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