Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 9.03.09

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by BorgKing » Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:43 pm

Sorry if this has been mentioned... I read this entire post before, and I can't quite remember, and I jus skimmed, and did not see this.

Armor first rolls over at approximately 21 million.

I had over 20 million(in a2, 3 armor shrines in the 'ancient tunnels - lost city') and I kept grabbing the armor shrines... they stack! My base armor is 371, but I eventually made my way up to 20 million! I was wondering when it would roll over, then, I hit another Armor Shrine and my armor went to 403.

Just letting you knows, incase no one has found out yet. :good:
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Queuetip » Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:39 am

I am not sure if anyone has found an accurate rollover value for AR, but % chance to hit went from 95% to 5% around 22 mil.
It sux, because theirs no way i can get it back up.

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:34 am

[quote=Queuetip";p="156328"]I am not sure if anyone has found an accurate rollover value for AR, but % chance to hit went from 95% to 5% around 22 mil.
It sux, because theirs no way i can get it back up.[/quote]
For AR and defense is the same something behind 21 mil...
You should be able to remove some Attack rating with stats reduction recipes and you can reduce your dexterity also....just try something...
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Ssergit » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:26 am

I am incredibly confused--I maxed my fire mastery and my hydra, because I didn't see my hydra getting anywhere near the cap with them both maxed, so I figured it was ok. Then I checked my firewall, and with one point in it, it does about 120k. I was disappointed, but didn't really care, since I don't use it that much. Then, on a whim, because I wanted to see what it would be like to cast a spell and see it do no damage, I cast it on something. It descimated! I thought elemental damages didn't just roll over after hitting 87k, I thought they did no damage? Considering my hydras do 70k a hit, and they aren't doing anywhere near as much damage on hitting as the firewall is doing, could my FW really be doing 120k? This is in Normal Suicide Sanctum, and Nightmare Act 5, btw.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Pure Sadin » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:10 am

Maybe the monsters had resistances?
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:25 am

[quote=Ssergit";p="157168"]I am incredibly confused--I maxed my fire mastery and my hydra, because I didn't see my hydra getting anywhere near the cap with them both maxed, so I figured it was ok. Then I checked my firewall, and with one point in it, it does about 120k. I was disappointed, but didn't really care, since I don't use it that much. Then, on a whim, because I wanted to see what it would be like to cast a spell and see it do no damage, I cast it on something. It descimated! I thought elemental damages didn't just roll over after hitting 87k, I thought they did no damage? Considering my hydras do 70k a hit, and they aren't doing anywhere near as much damage on hitting as the firewall is doing, could my FW really be doing 120k? This is in Normal Suicide Sanctum, and Nightmare Act 5, btw.[/quote]
FW (like a few other skills WoI...) works like poison dmg...it is per period of time....so the cap here is 83k per frame (and now you are doing 120k per second). You can boost FW further and further....these types of dmg work better on monsters with huge life regeneration anyway :)
Last edited by Jack Nipper on Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Ssergit » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:10 pm

Kick.
Ass.

Thanks, that will definetly come in handy!!
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:21 pm

Yesterday I went with my char to strange situation:
My life stop to grow on 8 300 000 (and something little more, dont remember exact number) when I level up and my attribs and stats should grow up my life, the number in character screen stay the same. Then When I drink full rejuv or went to NPC healer or drink refiling shrine or life shrine or level up next level my life counter went on 0 (or 1) and start to increase according to my life replenish speed...and the game have some problems with counting this numbers....so I have to go down with my life per level attribute on the belt so my life went back to 6,5 mil and everything work fine....maybe it is also somehow conected with this bug
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Kato » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 pm

:P I know there's definitely a bug when you have a very high Life and go to a healer. It has to do with the maximum value that is stored for chars. That's one of the problems that will be taken care of (I hope) when we upgrade to 4.0 which will entail a file structure change to allow higher maximum values. ;)
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:10 pm

Yes...we will see :lol: Anyway 8 000 000 life is enough :cool: ...

One thing:
Kato wrote on known bugs page:
Cause: this crash occurs when characters have extremely high Life numbers (somewhere in the neighbourhood of 180,000) combined with a negative life drain (like from a Demon Item) and try to talk to a healer NPC in town. The healer tries to heal you but the game can't handle the big numbers with the life drain and probably a few Life rollovers. The error message is actually resulting when the game tries to determine your current Life and redraw the health globe. More about it here: View topic - malah crash
Solution: Before you speak to a healer NPC in any town, move any Vitality or Life boosting items out of your backpack. This will cause your Life to decrease to some point such that the healer will be able to heal you without the game crashing. After you're done talking to the healer NPC, repack your items. The only permanent fix to this bug would require a restructuring of the char file structure which I am not prepared to do until mod version 4.0.
This is not that case, (but as I think, it could be connected somehow through life number counts is it?)
Last edited by Jack Nipper on Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Phlebiac » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:26 pm

Do these caps apply to the single items or is it for example the damage shown in the charscreen which is relevant?

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:10 pm

[quote=Phlebiac";p="164747"]Do these caps apply to the single items or is it for example the damage shown in the charscreen which is relevant?[/quote]
Hard to reply, cause I dont know about what caps exactly are you asking?So in general: If read through this thread you will see what is per item limit and what is general cap... ;)
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by TrueMage » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:36 am

And so now...
What max safe properly working values for: Damage, AR, AC, Life, Mana, Str, Dex, Vit, Enr ?
P.S. Excuse me for poor english.

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Jack Nipper » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:52 am

[quote=TrueMage";p="184115"]And so now...
What max safe properly working values for: Damage, AR, AC, Life, Mana, Str, Dex, Vit, Enr ?
P.S. Excuse me for poor english.[/quote] Read through this thread and try to understand the caps and rollovers, for example max damage of one element what can you do is anout 83k but it is not safe value, it depens on monsters which are you attacking, difficulty level....in hell can be safe value of physical dmg 120k....AR rolls at 21 milions, like AC, Life and mana start counting again from 8 300 000 aprox. Str Dex Vit Enr - they are capped too high, dont care....
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Holland_is_mad » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:14 pm

Maybe a bit dumb to ask since it probably isn't possible, but why don't you guys try asking the progammers that work on the patches for diablo about it?
They certainly know how it works since they are the once that change/made it.

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by kingpin » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:15 am

Maybe a bit dumb to ask since it probably isn't possible, but why don't you guys try asking the progammers that work on the patches for diablo about it?
They certainly know how it works since they are the once that change/made it.
There is a limit how large values a computer can handle. What you could do to prevent rollovers is to set max always to be a max (check if value > max then value = max). But, since this would require far amount of CE, this part will never happend. Also, I bet Blizzard doesn't care about this to make a new special patch for "Zy-El". They would instead tell the modmaker to keep the value lower than max value (kinda logic).

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Crono_Devir » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:09 pm

So for DMG, say the cap is 1000, if i have 1001, i do nothing, untill i have 2001, in which i will do 1 dmg.

So my damage has to be CAPx2+1 in order to do 1 dmg and up? [after i hit the cap]

What happens after that? Say the cap is 1000, and i do 3001, am i back at the same cap again, or will it be infinate after i hit the cap, then rollover, for the first time?

I'm cunfuzzled.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Myhrginoc » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:22 pm

Caps and rollovers are symptoms of data width limitations. Since damage is applied to life, the damage values will be shifted left eight bits (0.004 precision). That leaves at most 24 bits for the "whole number" part of damage anywhere in the damage calculation. That means every time your number goes beyond the number of allowed bits the excess to the left is lost.

I haven't traced the source of the 83K limit, but let's assume for simplicity that there is a data width limit in an intermediate calculation, before a final operation that gives us the magic maximum. (I will also round off values to thousands.) If you have 83K damage, you are in the money. At 84K the intermediate calculation turns on the sign bit, instead of +83K you now have -82K. But negative damage isn't used by itself so you inflict bupkis instead (good thing, no?). Go on to 166K and you're back to zero, and you can continue to 249K to get back to the allowed maximum. Hit 250K and you get the same result as with 84K. Rinse and repeat.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Crono_Devir » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:03 am

What about damage in the millions?

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Al-T » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:20 am

The same principle that Myhrginoc stated above applies. Each time you go over the "next" cap you lose the leftmost 8 bits from the 32 bit data type that holds the value and you need to add damage until you get to the next "rollover". This applies in the thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, billions....does this help? Like Myhrg said, rinse and repeat (you will need to do the math yourself for your own characters).

To simplify things, I don't worry too much about caps any more. If I am killing monsters fast enough all is well. If I suddenly struggle to kill, I just add more damage until I am killing at a comfortable rate again.
Last edited by Al-T on Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Dida » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:24 am

Myhrginoc";p="343927" wrote:Caps and rollovers are symptoms of data width limitations. Since damage is applied to life, the damage values will be shifted left eight bits (0.004 precision). That leaves at most 24 bits for the "whole number" part of damage anywhere in the damage calculation. That means every time your number goes beyond the number of allowed bits the excess to the left is lost.

I haven't traced the source of the 83K limit, but let's assume for simplicity that there is a data width limit in an intermediate calculation, before a final operation that gives us the magic maximum. (I will also round off values to thousands.) If you have 83K damage, you are in the money. At 84K the intermediate calculation turns on the sign bit, instead of +83K you now have -82K. But negative damage isn't used by itself so you inflict bupkis instead (good thing, no?). Go on to 166K and you're back to zero, and you can continue to 249K to get back to the allowed maximum. Hit 250K and you get the same result as with 84K. Rinse and repeat.

I was under the impression the damage roll-over cap was roughly 84k per element (fire, cold, physical, etc) as is describe in this thread, however recent testing over at AmazonBasin by onderduiker seems to indicate something else is occurring.

He's one-hit killed Hell Difficulty Baal in an 8 player game, using separately for each test: Bone Spear (magic), Fire Ball (fire), Nova (lightning), Frost Nova (cold) and Poison Nova (poison), War Cry (physical).

With each test the damage was a million for one hit, which killed Hell Baal in 8 player. If the roll-over damage cap is limited to 84k, can you explain how this occurred???


Onderduiker,
gave a Druid level 50 War Cry as an oskill after editing Skills.txt (HitShift 10; Min/MaxDam 5000; Min/MaxLevDam1-5 5000), which resulted in the following

Skill Level: 50
Damage: 1000000
Stun Length: 10 Seconds
Mana Cost: 59

In Hell Baal has 493,701 base hit points and 50% resistance to every damage type except magic (0%), so 987,402+ unmodified damage (no synergies, +% Enhanced Damage, critical hits or resistance modifiers) is required to kill him with a single cast. War Cry's 1,000,000 damage should thus kill him with a single cast... and it did.
Source: Zonfire & some other stuff, at www.theAmazonBasin.com/D2
Last edited by Dida on Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Hans » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:08 pm

It sounds to me that it was in version 1.10. The damage caps are treated differently in that version.
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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by seth_southerland » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:13 pm

it's good to know all of these things, though i haven't read even half of this thread, but i am wondering if this can all be arranged into one document or table or something so that all of the known info can be easily accessible and understood

just another idea for the newbies like myself who haven't encountered any caps or rollovers yet, and am fearful of how it could affect my character when i get to that point

i'm not sure what to be looking out for at this point

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Re: Damage Caps, Rollovers, and other #'s ---edit 4.07.03

Post by Dida » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:25 pm

Actually all the above were tested in patch 1.12a by onderduiker, not patch 1.10.


He also testing out a modified Archon Staff using a standard attack that did 1 million damage which 1-hit killed Hell Difficulty Baal in an 8 player game. But the Archon Staff was tested in patch 1.11b, two days before the 1.12a came out.


Just not sure why Kato's, Myhrginoc have different testing results than Onderduicker more recent tests show, in regards to the maximum damage roll-over cap.

Hans, what changed between patches 1.10 to 1.11b to 1.12, can you expand upon the differences please??
Last edited by Dida on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Hans » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:05 am

The person responsible for patch 1.10 was active at the keep and Zy-El was a good testing ground for finding the limits of D2. He made changes on how the game handles the caps. There are still caps in all the patches. I believe 1.11 caps are lower than 1.10.

I played a few mods for 1.10 where I managed to get damage up to a few millions for each damage source.

I know the damage caps are lower for 1.11 because they changed the method of calculating the damage. This information came from Brother Laz and his mod which was playable with 1.10 and 1.11. The 1.11 players where stating that were not doing any damage anymore and the 1.10 players were not having problems. I do not know anything about 1.12 since I do not think any mod makers are going to make any mods for it.
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