[Character] Barbarian

[Nameless]

I think having each tree didicated to one weapon only will be much too limiting. As fireblanket said, many people prefer a certain weapon look. Some skills require different weapons for different needs (Whirlwind is quite different with 2h weapon, 2 weapons or weapon and shield, you should allow all of them).

It depends on how you implement the skills, but AFAIK neither Leap Attack nor Berserk are good level 30 skills in that both of them are better for occasional use when the situation requires them than as a main skill. AFAIK Leap Attack is pretty broken, monsters can attack you while you leap and if the target of your attack moves while you leap, then you miss automatically.

From your example skill, how would Axe or Polearm barbs get Rage if the skill is restricted to Swords? Or would they have clones of the skill for Axes and Polearms?

Filling the barb skill trees will be somewhat difficult, if they are strong in melee, they shouldn't have all that much in the way of summons or magic skills, but it would seem weird not to have at least one tree with War Cries & Masteries (combine the skills from the two trees in vanilla into one).

I don't know how to fill the trees, but IMHO, it would be ok to have one row in a tree dedicated to a single weapon, but no more. Assuming we have 2 trees with 6 rows total for weapon skills, these could be: General (all weapons, this should contain unusual skills like Berserk, Whirlwind and Leap Attack), Sword, Axe, Pole, Mace, Throwing (possibly restricted to throwing axes).
Since you're going to have to add a lot of skills (or clones of other skills), it would be ok, for example, to have Fend in the Pole row, Zeal in the Sword row and Frenzy in the Axe row. Mace row could have Bash, but buffed up to do more damage than Concentrate so it is actually useful. If you want to restrict Berserk to a certain weapon, then all the other weapon types should also have a skill that can kill PI monsters, either Vengeance or Berserk clones (damage conversion is the important feature) that do different damage and have different advantages/disadvantages.

Also, if skills are restricted to a specific weapon type, then there should be weapons of that type availiable that have staffmods (unless there is no barb weapon that has staffmods at all). Of course the staffmods should be restricted to skills that can actually be used with that weapon.

[kingpin]

If i understand correctly what you want to implement are skills that are only usable with certain weapons??

I don't think it would be a good idea. Mainly because some people like the way axes or swords look, and who really uses pole-arms?
Pole-arms are slow and ugly (i find them ugly). Having whirlwind restricted to pole-arms would make many players not even use the skill.

Maybe having whirlwind restricted to two-handed weapons would be a better option.

Yeah, I'm picking up some older ideas I have with the new ideas I have for Barbarian. So, want some opinion about it before actually implement it. A class take about 1-2 months to implement with everything related to a char. So, it's better not make the class in a way that none would play it.

My idea about to specialize in certain weapon types is because those weapons is a type of weapon I could imagine a barbarian to use.

Polearms in unmodded game lack a reason to use. besides it's extra range. If polearms get their set of skills I would for sure make it as useful as possible

I think having each tree didicated to one weapon only will be much too limiting. As fireblanket said, many people prefer a certain weapon look. Some skills require different weapons for different needs (Whirlwind is quite different with 2h weapon, 2 weapons or weapon and shield, you should allow all of them).

Yeah. A possibility would be that different weapons give different effect to the skill.

So, if you fight with a sword it gives you let say extra crit to the skill, a mace stun, axe crush.

From your example skill, how would Axe or Polearm barbs get Rage if the skill is restricted to Swords? Or would they have clones of the skill for Axes and Polearms?

Your base attacks will give you rage to use for your more special moves. Axe and Polearm would get this kind of skill aswell.

Filling the barb skill trees will be somewhat difficult, if they are strong in melee, they shouldn't have all that much in the way of summons or magic skills, but it would seem weird not to have at least one tree with War Cries & Masteries (combine the skills from the two trees in vanilla into one).

You are right that Barbarian is not an easy class to implement. Most of it's skills is focused on use as many different type of weapons. Just look at the masteries. There is 6 different masteries and all masteries is doing same thing. Three is level 1 skills, and three is level 6 skills. There is not really much logic why sword, axe, mace is L1 skills where spear, polearm, throwing is L6 skills

I don't know how to fill the trees, but IMHO, it would be ok to have one row in a tree dedicated to a single weapon, but no more. Assuming we have 2 trees with 6 rows total for weapon skills, these could be: General (all weapons, this should contain unusual skills like Berserk, Whirlwind and Leap Attack), Sword, Axe, Pole, Mace, Throwing (possibly restricted to throwing axes).
Since you're going to have to add a lot of skills (or clones of other skills), it would be ok, for example, to have Fend in the Pole row, Zeal in the Sword row and Frenzy in the Axe row. Mace row could have Bash, but buffed up to do more damage than Concentrate so it is actually useful. If you want to restrict Berserk to a certain weapon, then all the other weapon types should also have a skill that can kill PI monsters, either Vengeance or Berserk clones (damage conversion is the important feature) that do different damage and have different advantages/disadvantages.

Have two complete tabs would be abit to much for this

One idea I got while walk home from work was allow certain skills give different effects depend on the weapon you equip then use it.

If we look at a modified version of the preview skill.


Sword of Disciples (would need a new name if I go for this idea)

You are trained to know how to strike an enemy.
Requires a 1 hand weapon to use

Level req: none.
Rage Cost: none.

Effect:

Gain X Rage per kill.
+%attack rating
+%increase damage

If have a sword equipped you gain increased chance for critical strike
If you have a axe equipped you gain increased chance for crushing blow
If you have a mace equipped you gain chance to stun

Regarding Immunities. Barbarian would get a "non" magic skill that would be able to pass an immunity.

[Nameless]

If you need ideas to fill Barb skilltabs:

Since he uses Rage instead of Mana, Buffs and such don't make that much sense. To expand on his War Cries skills, how about giving him "War Chants", basically auras (he's assumed to chant or sing while fighting).

[kingpin]

[quote=Nameless";p="394875"]If you need ideas to fill Barb skilltabs:

Since he uses Rage instead of Mana, Buffs and such don't make that much sense. To expand on his War Cries skills, how about giving him "War Chants", basically auras (he's assumed to chant or sing while fighting).[/quote]

He will get his buffs in another way from a new tree. Wont get into it right now as my main focus is the combat skill right now

[CorniI]

imho, adding different bonusses for different equipped weapons is not really usefull, nobody is going to chose one weapon over another because of the different bonus. In vanilla, just nobody really cared about the 2h-weapons except for mercs as then one lacks a shield and one doesn't get different boni from 2 weapons...
Maybe you can include this in your balancing, as playing with a big range should be fun, too. Now it would be time for the different weapon types, as Zealing with a reasonable speed and a long, 2h-weapon isn't close to be realistic, while with a throwing weapon (very fast) or a short sword (nearly as fast as the throwing weapon) one actually could imagine such thing. Will you fix the Leap-Attack-Bug?
And sorry for not betatesting DA the last days, i had to re-setup my comp, including reinstalling windows and encrypting my linux partition (that damn {filtered} took 2 days, till I got the bootloaders running right, including suffering from a bug of the hardware-detetction of W-XP-install-CDs...)
Corni

[kingpin]

imho, adding different bonusses for different equipped weapons is not really usefull, nobody is going to chose one weapon over another because of the different bonus. In vanilla, just nobody really cared about the 2h-weapons except for mercs as then one lacks a shield and one doesn't get different boni from 2 weapons...

Depend abit on the scale of the bonus

If sword gives you at skill level 20 +20% crit chance.

A axe gives you at skill level 20 +15% crushing blow.

A mace gives you at skill level 20 stun for 4 sec.

Note this numbers is just there to give a difference in comparsions

[CorniI]

I guess you'd never get this balanced as this includes that weapon damage + the type of the bonus are in a balnced way + the range of the weapon. If the damage of maces isn't too low, everyone would get a mace in your example and zeal+stun all enemies in no time...

[kingpin]

[quote=Aggrocorni";p="394883"]I guess you'd never get this balanced as this includes that weapon damage + the type of the bonus are in a balnced way + the range of the weapon. If the damage of maces isn't too low, everyone would get a mace in your example and zeal+stun all enemies in no time...[/quote]

The skill is a single target skill and if Barbarian gain a "zeal" type of skill it wouldn't be as powerful as zeal are.

But ofcourse if it's shows it's broken in the initial tests if would have to be redone

Now, nothing is finalized for Barbarian.

[fireblanket]

Yeah. A possibility would be that different weapons give different effect to the skill.

So, if you fight with a sword it gives you let say extra crit to the skill, a mace stun, axe crush.

i think this is a great idea.
I can see many players carrying a weapon of each kind.
It will add variety.




*Off Topic Question*

Are you going to implement the characters in order from right to left?

[kingpin]

Are you going to implement the characters in order from right to left?

Not necessary. The Barbarian was decided as next in-work because afj666 (who made alot of code for DA in early dev) really love Barbarian. So, promised him to implement it next.

Necromancer have been requested by alot to get implemented too