Runewords discussions

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Runewords discussions

Post by Joel » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:44 pm

Ok done some test on runewords and some problem arise :

FIRST : RUNE DROP RATE
What to do to get a decent acces to runes (even high one) and not have everyone run with top notch runewords everywhere ?

Solution :
1) increase the drop rate, but maybe this would encourage more area clearances. And it would still be random.

2) introduce someupgrade formulas for the Cube. Some recipes like El + Sol + Lum and Perf Emerald = Gul could make getting high level runes and cubing a possible strategy for getting high level runes.

3) allow gambling for runes. Say 50,000 gold gives what is effectively a rune drop. Gold would then be very valuable. Again it would be random.

?
Last edited by Joel on Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by mishy23 » Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:28 pm

Good question,

Just a quick reply here:
1)I definately think drop rate needs a small increase over the stingy vanilla d2, the odds for high runes are so incredibly rare, and if your mod is going to have a large single player community, might as well take runes out if you keep them as rare as blizzard did.
Anything that promotes players to clear areas is a good thing to me,
Make sure some monsters are not set to drop too good (like countess)
or players get lazy and don't clear areas, but instead start doing runs on one monster.
Multiplayer is a different story.

2)I'm not a huge cube recipe fan, but it is good to have some way to upgrade runes, cause even in hell diff the higher runes will be very rare to find, so if someone play along time, atleast they know they have a chance at some runewords by saving and cubing up.
I don't think this should be the only thing relied on though.
I do not have any upgrading recipes in my mod but my rune drop rate is extremely high (about as high as gem drops)

3)I thought gambling runes would be a good balance once to. My experiment in this area lead to me scrapping the idea and going with better drop rates. Gold is too easily abusable after a certain point, and for rarity sake, it either frustrates players they spent all that gold on the most commonest rune, or allows them to good of a chance to get the high level runes. If you can come up with a way to balance gold and the way gambling runes works, I wish you the best of luck.

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Last edited by mishy23 on Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tyd » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:57 pm

the major problem with runewords in vannila is, that its just annoying to first try to get the runes you need, which sometimes take extremly long (cause the droprate is so ridiculously low ...... i allready had the case that i cleared act1 to 5 complete and only found 1 EL rune.... funny blizz >_<) and then you need to find an item with the correct number of slots....... which isn't easy as well. 5 drops with 2 slots don't really help if you need one with 3 slots ^^. its way easier (and faster) to just do some baalruns and take the items you get from him. and thats the point, d2 (and so basically every mod it has) is about speed. d2 isn't a real RPG and its very old, so the last interesting point is to hunt items, and that fast :D.

so i would suggest, if you want rune to be used, make it either very interesting (for example make runewords very strong! in vanilla basically every runeword is outnumbered by some other items that drop) or make it way easier (and faster) to get a runeword.

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Post by Joel » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:35 pm

For slots, there is easy recipes to get some items with socket don't worry.
The plan is to reduce this stupid chance of rune rollback and add some gambling option. There is also an unsocketing recipes that allow ya to get back the best rune in the item.

I'll also try to make a smooth progression on runewords, so one can compelte some low level early, less mid and actually have to compete for high one.

For runewords stats the principe will be the one of "Bramble" or CTA : ie,
some nice bonus fixed and one big bonsu that is randomized (liek having ed% 25-100 instead of plain ed% 100). So it'll actually make sense to make a runeword.
Last edited by Joel on Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by sPoT » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:49 am

I have one more idea (taken from one MMORPG game :) ):
Set the xxx rune's drop in one area at rare, but you will be sure, that you'll find it, if you kill about 100-150 monsters (quite a hard monsters).

So: there is one, set drop rate of this rune in one area, and you will surely find it, if you definitely try.

I don't know if you completely understand, so if you want, I'll try to write some more about it.

[EDIT]: One more very important thing:
Don't even try to make Bosses able to drop good items or runes (etc.) - it will prevent of making runs.

Don't set rune drop for one or few monster classes. Make about 20 random monsters able to drop a rune, but not random, make chance to drop rune x from 1st monster, drop rune xx from 2nd monster etc.
So you'll go for rune search to many caves etc. - I'm sure, you didn't visited too much non-linked areas in Vanilla.

What do you think about this idea? I want to hear your opinion about it :)
Last edited by sPoT on Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Joel » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:00 am

No.
It will turn monster run into area run. Forget that :|
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Post by Tyd » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:54 pm

[quote=sPoT";p="190253"]

[EDIT]: One more very important thing:
Don't even try to make Bosses able to drop good items or runes (etc.) - it will prevent of making runs.
[/quote]

sorry but imo thats a stupid idea >_<. so you have a damn hard fight vs a tuff boss monster and you won't get anything as reward? sorry, but thats crap ....... hard fights should be rewarded.

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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by Mythrander101 » Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:53 am

sorry but imo thats a stupid idea >_<. so you have a damn hard fight vs a tuff boss monster and you won't get anything as reward? sorry, but thats crap ....... hard fights should be rewarded.
Amen. I totally agree.

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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by DarkSlash » Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:51 am

Here's my thoughts on the matter, although keep in mind I don't actually know hw things are ossible in the modding world as I don't mod, so some of my suggestions may very well be impossible:

1) An increased drop rate, with it mostly random but so that the lvl of runes scales up with the monsters; have still a large radius but so you can only find like hel and up or something in act 15 hell or whatnot...although this might be abused.

2) I like this idea. It makes it so there is a reason to hold onto low end runes when you find them, but you only really need to hold onto 1 of each(as opposed to vanilla where you need 3 of the same type to up) For really high end runes you might want to make it quite complex, needing 5-8 different runes and gems to make the most powerful runes.

3) I think that this should be like I said for the monsters...have the runes that you can gamble scale up with your player level; but also the price scales up as well! so when your in the high levels (say 80+) you can buy fairly high end runes...but its still random so u won't necessarily get what you want, and they will cost a ridiculously high amount of money(say hundreds of thousands of gold). This way money is still something to hold onto without making it too easy to abuse(hopefully).

And that's my thoughts; comment, criticise and suggest away. I discourage flames though, as they are not really constructive. I'd like to reiterate that I don't really know anything about modding, so if what I suggested was impossible, sorry bout that :).

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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by Molmoch » Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:28 pm

One idea that may or may not work for rune gambling. Why not have different "classes" or "categories" of runes? For example, common, uncommon, rare, legendary? Then the price of the runes could be tailored to the power of the rune. Then I wouldn't feel annoyed by spending 50k on an EL.

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Post by Joel » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:55 pm

OK, this is a first shot for Runes Power and level.

Code: Select all

Runes    Properties
AN       light       1    1
WEN      att         3    3
ATH      ac          3    3
IS'      dmg-norm    3    3
LEI      res-fire    5    5
DRI      res-cold    5    5
SE       res-ltng    5    5
LA       res-pois    5    5
D        res-mag     5    5
HYL      move3       5   5
THI      dmg-fire    3    6
VAL      dmg-cold    3    6
EL       dmg-ltng    3    6
LH       str          3   3
ÜL       dex          3   3
DO       enr          3   3
LYG      vit           3   3
HAN      cast3       5    5
KUL      ac%         10  10
GWE      att%        10  10
VEN      regen        10  10
GA       hp%         5    5
RA       mana%       5    5
RON      swing3      5    5
NÔL      all-stats   2    2 
Remember that Runes can be socketed up to 6 times on big items and 4 times on others. Thus the low value of individual runes.

Suggestions ?

EDIT : corrected +satt bonsu which was TOO high
Edit: Joel just changed all-stats from 3 to 2, and forgot about changing dmg% to regen. Boo! All your +60% damage armors are belong to us!
Last edited by Joel on Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by stzein » Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:11 pm

I like it! Compared to LoD runes yours seem quite weak, but I guess the balance in your mod is quite different from LoD too.

Also, I very much like the idea of gambling runes. The way Darkslash described it sounds good to me:
have the runes that you can gamble scale up with your player level; but also the price scales up as well! so when your in the high levels (say 80+) you can buy fairly high end runes...but its still random so u won't necessarily get what you want, and they will cost a ridiculously high amount of money(say hundreds of thousands of gold).
If you change the drop rates, make sure you don't change them all by the same %. I don't feel like getting an AN rune every 3 drops. :letitallout:

Anyway, keep up the good work!

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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by Brother Laz » Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:19 pm

Am I the only one who sees the problem with *+10* to stats on relatively common runes?
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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by kingpin » Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:34 pm

Am I the only one who sees the problem with *+10* to stats on relatively common runes?
You are not alone,

I have suggested to Joel on irc to lower it. Othervise you will always use +10 to stat instead of the others :P

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Re: Runewords discussions

Post by Joel » Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:08 pm

[quote=Brother Laz";p="191402"]Am I the only one who sees the problem with *+10* to stats on relatively common runes?[/quote]

:oops: forgot to change that. Should be +3.
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Post by GuyAskingQuestion » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:57 pm

Maybe the last rune should be +2 all stats, otherwise the +3 to single stats are pointless except for runewords :)
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Post by Joel » Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:50 pm

First shot on runewords (kuddos to Brother Laz)

album_page.php?pic_id=458
album_page.php?pic_id=457
album_page.php?pic_id=456
Last edited by Joel on Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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