Pets & their skills

Information and teasers from the upcoming mod, Shadow Empires.

Moderators: Black Heart, Joel

0
No votes
 
Total votes: 0

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:50 am

What a pity that ragnarok online is paid now
Oh really? I played it once but lost interest after a while...

But pets:

For the hawk: I wouldn't mind if you just take the birds from act 1 LoD. or better yet, those from act 2.

For the spider: You know, still liking them. They could take the part of the spellcasting pet, mage spider. I also like vanilla Lod's one. Sandfisher is best :) But that's my personal choice...

For the missing gfx: You don't necessarily need to convert them first, if you just show us several examples in their original look, that should be enough to choose them.

Some questions (since I may have new ideas for the skill concept):
1) How does LoD handle the new skills of the merc.
Does s/he always have the skills and just get a new AI when s/he levels-up high enough to allow the use of the skill then?
Or do mercs actually get the new skills and they just use any they have?

2) Can items affect AI? I asked that before and this is not an easy one, I know. Anyway, it only matters if the answer to the question above is that with the AI.

Oh, by the way: You didn't ask for comment on that, but the new beast tamer is exceptionaly good, too!

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:21 am

Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: For the hawk: I wouldn't mind if you just take the birds from act 1 LoD. or better yet, those from act 2.
I hesitate between the ol'raven which is neat and the act1 hawk. Tha act 2 one is too big for me :(
Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: For the spider: You know, still liking them. They could take the part of the spellcasting pet, mage spider. I also like vanilla Lod's one. Sandfisher is best :) But that's my personal choice...
I was thinking of using the one I show for the first one, the loD one as second and find something else for the third.
Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: For the missing gfx: You don't necessarily need to convert them first, if you just show us several examples in their original look, that should be enough to choose them.
No, it's converted ,I just forget to upload them :oops:
Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: Some questions (since I may have new ideas for the skill concept):
1) How does LoD handle the new skills of the merc.
Does s/he always have the skills and just get a new AI when s/he levels-up high enough to allow the use of the skill then?
Or do mercs actually get the new skills and they just use any they have?
The skills gets new skills or increase the old ones and use it s AI and some other value to use them. EG : a merc with two offensive spell and frozen armor, will always use the armor and while the armor is active, cast its spell according to their range.
Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: 2) Can items affect AI? I asked that before and this is not an easy one, I know. Anyway, it only matters if the answer to the question above is that with the AI.
No, it can't :( but with the %chance etc ... we can add special skills when we want. And setting the % to 90-100 will ensure it use it :)
Xcolibri";p="64899" wrote: Oh, by the way: You didn't ask for comment on that, but the new beast tamer is exceptionaly good, too!
hehe it's the Hunter, the one who sell you the pets in Act 1 :)
(she's actually look like a hunter characetr, it's on purpose ;) )
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:46 am

No, it can't but with the %chance etc ... we can add special skills when we want. And setting the % to 90-100 will ensure it use it
But what if the pet has several skills? Then there will be attacks with two+ skill activations at one time, right?

Hmm, is this possible:
Pet items spawn with the %XYZ
When leveled up, this % raises by a fixed percent, like 50% or so.
Only problem is the head slot: Is it possible that leveling it raise the level of the skill which is on the items? I don't think so, hmm?

For the AI: If a pet has now 4 or more skills? Will the AI use them in any way or do we have to go the %cast way? Or will the AI use them like it did with the mercs (e.g. hawk, replacing the rogue, will cast spells like the rogue did with inner sight and is able to use attack skill(s) like the rogue did with fire/cold arrows)?
It should be possible to change (at least some of) the skills and let the pets use them instead of giving them %cast only. For there are other mods with mercs who have new abilitites (act 5 barb with fist of the heavens, act 1 rogue with baal's v-missile and blade shield, act 3 mercs with curses,...)

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:22 pm

Xcolibri";p="65088" wrote:For the AI: If a pet has now 4 or more skills? Will the AI use them in any way or do we have to go the %cast way? Or will the AI use them like it did with the mercs (e.g. hawk, replacing the rogue, will cast spells like the rogue did with inner sight and is able to use attack skill(s) like the rogue did with fire/cold arrows)?
It should be possible to change (at least some of) the skills and let the pets use them instead of giving them %cast only. For there are other mods with mercs who have new abilitites (act 5 barb with fist of the heavens, act 1 rogue with baal's v-missile and blade shield, act 3 mercs with curses,...)
Obviously yes !!
All the skills and AI param related to these skills are editable for mercs !
We just have to replace the skills in hireling.txt with ours and it'll rocks.
The hawk willa ct as Act1 rogue etc ...
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:27 pm

Well, this is good news!

But why do we need %cast then if the pets can cast/use their skills anyway?

What we could do is letting spawn selected players' skills on pet items.
Or we don't take all of the 30 skill slots for the individual pets but let aside like 5 for general skills that can spawn on pet equipment.

I'd like if pet items can spawn with +skills for the individual skills for every pet. But then the leveled equipment doesn't make so much sense, since it already gives +skill to grant the skill to the pet. Maybe the levelling gives a big bonus while the bonus on the item is only low?

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:33 pm

Welll, i've checked that each hirelings can have 6 skills, selected from all the skills available (minus some buggy ones).

So what we have to do is to find 6 skills per pets.
Some of these tem will be [pets only] and grants bonus to specific pets skills or overall stats bonus.

Note also that Each merc have betwwen 12 and 18 entries in hireling.txt, one for each style/difficulty combintion
Ex : Fire Arrow-Normal, Fire Arrow-Nihgtmare etc ...
So we can change the skills of the hawks/Eagle/Griffin without affecting each others. OR keep them the same (but with more chance or points).

Go see the hireling.txt fileguide to have an idea of what we can do with mercs, it'll surely help you ;)
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:28 pm

I'll try to, tomorrow. Now going to my girl-friend and to a party later.

That the skills can change with the difficulty is a great thing. I see nice potential here :)

Okay, Monday morning and I finally made it to a quick look into the guide.
Doesn't look too complicated.
I don't know yet if it will be better to use different skils or just other chances. That is probably best to say when we have the 6 skills for each pet.
Also note that you can count less on me for the next time because my tests are awaiting me :cry:
If you upload new gfx I will still comment them (I will comment anyway, just the delay will be bigger)
Last edited by Xcolibri on Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:29 pm

well it's a small step but :

http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~cabalwars/temp/hawk.jpg

The hawk pet is working, just need to fix the AI and rpevent him to shoot arrows :)

PS : the merc icon is bad, just haven't the time to fix it.

Now, another small pb, the merc name :)
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Brother Laz
Forum Legend
Dominion
Posts: 6715
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:06 am
Location: Fallen Like Lightning
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Brother Laz » Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:50 am

The merc icon is good, dammit!
19.may.2007 | Adun Tori Laz.
Median XL released!
Flesyht sa ruobhgien yht etah.


y dont u play the game the way its supposta be played? -SlothNathan

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:51 am

yep but it doesn't look really like a HAWK !
:) got it from NWN.
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Aedeon
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:37 am
Location: DC
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Aedeon » Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:03 pm

would be a great icon for one of the spirits, or an air elemental type thing
confidant . . . cocky . . . lazy . . . dead

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:13 pm

currently it's an icon for a Celestial summon (sorry brother laz ;) )
Well, I found the hawk icon now it's better.
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:12 pm

Well, first AI change try...
I gave the Corrupt Rogue AI to the Act 1 Merc :

good news, it doesn't shoot arrows anymore.
BUT it doesn't move by itself :'(

I'm close but ... well I lack some stuff ...
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Aedeon
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:37 am
Location: DC
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Aedeon » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:06 am

shouldn't it be posslable to just switch the AI with one of the melee mercs and have it work?
confidant . . . cocky . . . lazy . . . dead

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:37 am

That's what i did last night :)
I've switched Rogue AI with Desert Pal. AI and works fine :)

I've also discovered that if the lack of movement isn't a problem, you can switch ANY merc AI with ANY other monster's AI ...

So the AI problem is solved ;)

<<---- continuing gfx conversion :)
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:14 am

Great! You are climbing the ladder to success & a great mod :lol:

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:19 am

So, I've just checked the fact than :

* you could give passive to a pet
* the pets can have 6 skills each. BUT you can build between 12 and 18 variations of a pets with differents skills ( like the fire arrow, cold arrows rogue merc)

So I think it's time to prepare the skills of our pets isn't it.

So, let's start logical : The Hawk pet.

SO post ideas here ;) we'll discuss a bit after :D
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:43 am

But it isn't possible to let one pet have say 4 and the other one 8 skills? So move them around?

Because a pet with a lot of spells would need more skills than e.g. the tiger.

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:54 am

Nope, each merc has only 6 skills (6column in hireling.txt)
BUT you can let some empty and use the subtype to make pets having more spells

ex : if you need 10 spells for the spell casting pets, just make 2 subtype and divide the spells between these types.
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Xcolibri
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 am
Location: kickme.to/xcolibri
Contact:

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Xcolibri » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:29 pm

That's good news :)

BTW, I came across a NWN page searching for some fantasy pictures for myself.
There are some models to download (including a spider^^) but I have no idea if you can use them (file format...). Linking them doesn't hurt, though

http://www.planetneverwinter.com/downlo ... ia/models/

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:47 pm

yes they are :)
but they'ra all already included into the game ;)

Extracting the spider to let you see them [***....] %
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:26 pm

Relaunching the topic a bit ...

This is the choices of pets so far :

Act 1-5-10 : "Bird of Prey" -> flying, melee attack.
Hawk -> Griffin -> Phoenix (finally found a way to make it look less like a chicken)

Act 2-6-11 : "Predator" -> melee attack.
Cheetah -> White Tiger -> Shadow Panther

Act 5-9-14 : "Constructs" -> melee, tank like pet.
Clay Golem -> Iron Golem -> Adamantine Golem

I still dunno what pet use in Act 3 or 4 ...
Like it seems I can't use the barb token to get TWO different hireling, we have to ditch one :
either the arachnid or the spirit stuff ...

After fixing this issue, we could go on and brainstorm about Pets skills & items.
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Dezdrehel
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:58 pm

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Dezdrehel » Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:50 pm

Hi, :wave:
i've been reading the post of this amazing mod for quite a while now.

Seems it's time for me to put some ideas.

The tree first pets, are melee. So, as already said, we need a ranged attack pet.
Since there's only one pet of this type, it should do ranged physical attacks and ranged spell attacks.

The early list for it was:

* Lizard - Wyvern - Dragon
* Spider races but how to find THREE differents spidr names ...
* Faeries like ? with magic missile ?
* Ghost like ? with spectral hit ?

IMHO the dragon is a too big and powerfull creature for a pet. It would be more situable for a summon, i think.
The spider would look weird as a ranged attacker and spell caster.

This left the Faerie and the ghost.
It would be strange to have a knight or a hunter traveling with a ghost. ;)

I think some sort of neutral faerie like the pixit would make it.
Firing darts and casting spell would look "natural" for this creature, and it will fit with the D&D style of this mod. :P

Well, that's my opinion and i'm new on this forum. :fadein:

User avatar
Joel
Moderator
Dominion
Posts: 6921
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Orsay
Contact:

Hand-picked

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Joel » Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:13 pm

Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: The tree first pets, are melee. So, as already said, we need a ranged attack pet.
Since there's only one pet of this type, it should do ranged physical attacks and ranged spell attacks.
Yep, or if can find a way to have an additional pet both separate caster/ranged pets.
Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: The early list for it was:

* Lizard - Wyvern - Dragon
* Spider races but how to find THREE differents spidr names ...
* Faeries like ? with magic missile ?
* Ghost like ? with spectral hit ?
Yup, right :beer:
Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: IMHO the dragon is a too big and powerfull creature for a pet. It would be more situable for a summon, i think.
Well, yes ... having a pets STRONGER than the character could be annoying ...
Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: The spider would look weird as a ranged attacker and spell caster.
even if they spit "Goo of Doom", "Guided Goo" and the like :lol:
Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: This left the Faerie and the ghost.
It would be strange to have a knight or a hunter traveling with a ghost. ;)
Even more strange with the Guardian Hunter (active undead killer) or the Templar Knight
(with his Turn Undead Aura) ...
Dezdrehel";p="77780" wrote: I think some sort of neutral faerie like the pixit would make it.
Firing darts and casting spell would look "natural" for this creature, and it will fit with the D&D style of this mod. :P
Yup, the faeries line could fit. Now, let's find

1. gfx
2. three acceptable faerie type ...

For the skills, well we can give it some aura (Luck aura, light aura) and some
dart/missile stuff (Magic Missile etc ...)

The way I could see it is to be a colorful, light show pet ...
"How much suffering, mortal, does it take before you lose your grace?"
Shadow Empire (coming soon) | forum

User avatar
Dezdrehel
Junior Member
Champion of the Light
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:58 pm

Re: Pets & their skills

Post by Dezdrehel » Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:05 pm

Hmmm, for the spider, may be it could be an option.
I see one problem with them : their size. (You won't make tiny spiders i think)
I just imagine exploring maggot lair or place like this with a huge spiders blocking movement of others minions with its eight long legs. :OI:

Now the faeries.
For the tree type, we could choose:
1. The pixit like.
2. A nice mephit. (For the "evil" class)
3. The faerie dragon. (The stronger type, and we're back with the dragon idea)

The gfx
1. pixit-> we can use the sylph from HOMM4 (1st grad creature of the sorc castle)
2. mephit -> there's some in the introduction of BG2
3. faerie dragon-> hmmm there must be some of them in BG2, NWN or elsewhere... i don't know. (the ones from HOMM4 are too big)

Post Reply

Return to “Shadow Empires”