A mod without builds - like bastion

[Desocupado]

The other day I was playing Bastion, then I begun to wonder how it's "skill system" work.
Basically it goes like this:

It's somewhat similar to Diablo 3, you bring 2 "primary attacks" (weapons) - each one gets 5 passive effects (from a list with 5 mutually exclusive pairs), which augment the attacks nicely, like proving more bullets, burning effects, ricochets and so on.
Besides the primary attack you get 2 "spenders" that cost a limited resource to use (black tonics).

Beyond using some passives and masteries to modify a given skill along with pluggy for unlimited reset, we would get a system similar to D3. You just change you build at will.
It's good in the sense it bring some strategy - "One must choose his build maximizing synergy".

-Some upgrade trees could go like cold arrow (level 1) -> freezing arrow (requires maximum cold arrow)
-This idea is good in the sense you can make mutually exclusive upgrades.
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But what about, having no builds are all? i.e. you get enough skill points to maximize all skills, but instead of making a build, you must learn how to exploit all skills to full use.
I mean, with up to 7 classes, do we really need to incentive re-playability with the same class?

[zjat]

Bastion is a great example, I'll through starcraft 2's campaign in there as well. Extremely similar setup where you have a skill tree (which you have to collect points in missions for) and then you get to unlock A or B at each rank. While more rigid, it does allow some reason to replay the campaign, simply to see A verses B and the combinations of such. With Bastion, it also has a replay (new game plus) function as some of the game is simply not unlockable in one run. (I believe 2 of the Dieties require new game plus.) If you get the chance, grab Transistor as well (Made by same as Bastion). It uses a similar function, but actually allows you to pick 5 skills, and then link two other skills into it. Each skill has a Primary (active), Secondary (linked), and Tertiary (character passive) effect. Now something like that would be incredible to a Hack n slash like D2 or ARPG like D3, but probably not within the scope of this thread.

An option that could be plausible, is having an item that grants a simple skill (oskill) or mastery of some kind. Like a unique charm that could be recrafted via the cube, or sold and purchased by various vendors (each act having a different unique charm? idk). Then you could have 1 "skill" choice per act and in this example, up to 5 ranks and 2 options at each 'rank.'

Last thought, a skill system could be completely functional with each lesser skill having less total skill levels. If frost arrow only have 5 levels, there's no real loss in pumping 5 levels into it then climbing to the next rank of frost arrow as ice arrow or freezing arrow (aoe). Especially since the defaults of these can be easily modified for % damage bonus or conversion. There's a Xmen fighter/rpg game that did something like this, they had either 3 or 5 levels of each skill, and subsequent skills (like ice and freezing arrows) really just modified and slightly mutated the original skill. I believe that game however Required each previous skill to be maxed.

[Jeewdew]

Last thought, a skill system could be completely functional with each lesser skill having less total skill levels. If frost arrow only have 5 levels, there's no real loss in pumping 5 levels into it then climbing to the next rank of frost arrow as ice arrow or freezing arrow (aoe). Especially since the defaults of these can be easily modified for % damage bonus or conversion. There's a Xmen fighter/rpg game that did something like this, they had either 3 or 5 levels of each skill, and subsequent skills (like ice and freezing arrows) really just modified and slightly mutated the original skill. I believe that game however Required each previous skill to be maxed.

Think futher with this:
If you get 1 skill point on maybe every 3rd lvl (or less, if the lvling is too easy), and then if you fx. have fire, frost or poision arrow, you can only chose 1 of them, locking the other 2 out, then each have 2 upgrades ex. frost to ice (1 target) or freezing (aoe), and the "main skill" then have a "booster" where you can put 3 or 5 points into buffing the damage, lower cost or what ever...
Then maybe each "class" have 10 skills, with 2 upgrades in each that all have 1 booster...
But maybe one can only have 5 primary skills then locking the rest of the tree out, having to buy a reset or throb a pot or what ever...
I once tanglede myself in a tree like this, it's hard to create, but the outcome is freaking awesome! =)

[Desocupado]

Bastion is a great example, I'll through starcraft 2's campaign in there as well. Extremely similar setup where you have a skill tree (which you have to collect points in missions for) and then you get to unlock A or B at each rank. While more rigid, it does allow some reason to replay the campaign, simply to see A verses B and the combinations of such. With Bastion, it also has a replay (new game plus) function as some of the game is simply not unlockable in one run. (I believe 2 of the Dieties require new game plus.)
If you get the chance, grab Transistor as well (Made by same as Bastion). It uses a similar function, but actually allows you to pick 5 skills, and then link two other skills into it. Each skill has a Primary (active), Secondary (linked), and Tertiary (character passive) effect. Now something like that would be incredible to a Hack n slash like D2 or ARPG like D3, but probably not within the scope of this thread.

Got both, they are great indeed, tough i think bastion is the better one.

An option that could be plausible, is having an item that grants a simple skill (oskill) or mastery of some kind. Like a unique charm that could be recrafted via the cube, or sold and purchased by various vendors (each act having a different unique charm? idk). Then you could have 1 "skill" choice per act and in this example, up to 5 ranks and 2 options at each 'rank.'

Maybe a quest drop (might bug in multiplayer) with transmutate (so you right click and it changes)

Last thought, a skill system could be completely functional with each lesser skill having less total skill levels. If frost arrow only have 5 levels, there's no real loss in pumping 5 levels into it then climbing to the next rank of frost arrow as ice arrow or freezing arrow (aoe). Especially since the defaults of these can be easily modified for % damage bonus or conversion. There's a Xmen fighter/rpg game that did something like this, they had either 3 or 5 levels of each skill, and subsequent skills (like ice and freezing arrows) really just modified and slightly mutated the original skill. I believe that game however Required each previous skill to be maxed.

Which make more sense even with blizzard's original skilltree, don't you agree?