Random Tidbits: Conditions

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Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:13 am

I decided to make a small list of the status conditions you (the player) can be afflicted with, this is in no way complete (things that are yet to be coded aren't included here, and some stuff is kept secret). I also explain the side effects of each condition. Some of this is repeated from the formulae thread, but I guess the "formulae" scares some people off, so here they are in plain terms. Note, curses are not included, except for those where considerable changes have been done. Some of the info here prolly differs from the formula thread, as it shows the most recent state of things.

Freeze - freeze prevents you from doing anything (except for interacting with the menus, so you can exit the game, but you can't do things such as moving, casting spells, drinking potions etc, this is all disabled), your sprite doesn't animate in this condition either, while frozen attacks will always hit you. Only other players and allies can remove freeze from you (as you yourself obviously can't).

Poison - while technically like the vanilla poison (ie it drains life), it has two differences, first of all, poison will randomly induce hit recovery on the player while he/she is poisoned. Poison can also kill you (also inside towns, so beware). Most npcs (inc. free healers), can remove poison.

Chill - chill slows you down, the amount of speed you lose depends on your cold resistance (unlike vanilla IIRC, but it's been too long to be sure), while chilled, your chance to hit suffers and monsters have an easier time hitting you. Chill can be removed by many npcs (but not the free healers, as it's not a health problem :P). *hint thawing potions are cheaper then asking a npc to heal you.

Stun - stun basically has the same effect as freeze, but your sprite still animates, while stunned every hit induces hit recovery and you are also easier to hit. Stun is a regular side effect of battle, if you run low on stamina, strong hits may stun you, it is always wise to watch your stamina before rushing into a mob (that or drink a potion).

Slow - The slow target effect from vanilla, the effect now visibly shows on targets, (they become light blue, not dark blue like chill). Slow can dispell Haste (and vice versa, Haste can dispell slow), thus you can never be hasted or slowed at the same time.

Prevent Heal - This comes in three flavours (for life, mana and stamina), if you are afflicted by this, the respective pool cannot heal (but it can drop further).

Wounds - The open wounds effect from vanilla, the bleeding is now enabled on players (players can, unlike vanilla, bleed now, also as result of getting struck by a strong hit). The damage dealt by the wounds isn't level dependant, but depends on how severe they are (depends on the weapon used for the attack that causes the wounds).

Burn - burn is a stand alone damage type, and a (rare) side effect of some fire attacks, while burning, you are covered in a cloud of fire and leave a trail of smoke (see screenshot thread), burn is resisted by fire resistance (et al.)

Petrification - the result of stone curse (and other things like this), stonecurse is similar to Freeze (no interaction, no animation), however stonecurse actually makes you harder to hit and you take less damage from physical attacks. Can only be removed by Stone to Flesh spells or waiting until it wears off, it's best to have an ally with you (player or merc), that can remove the effect if you go into dangerous terrain (or use a scroll of protection from petrification etc).

Acid - acid is like poison, it damages your life over time and can induce hit recovery (although rarer), what acid does ontop of this, it errodes your equipment, and your equipment is more likely to shatter then normally (shatter, not break, which means its completely gone). Acid reduces maximum and current durability of items as well as defense. Some types of equipment are not prone to acid damage.

"Darkness" - a side effect of negative plane damage, it randomly dispells buffs that you may have active, and drains mana over time (think poison, but burning your mana pool). Negative Plane attacks have many other side effects, this is just a common one.

Fear - fear takes away control from your character, you will proceed to run around (or walk if stamina is drained out) until the effect wears off or you get to a distance from the source of fear. There are many ways to prevent this, as a rule of thumb, if your threat is higher then that of a unit, it wont be able to induce fear.

Silence - silence is an anti-magic effect, spells that need to be chanted cannot be used while silenced, this applies also to monsters (annoyed by some mage, try and silence them if you can).

Blood Mana - the only curse I will discuss here, in vanilla this thing is a bit lame, it's rather unpredictable there. In MetalStorm bloodmana will apply a percentage of the mana cost of a spell as damage to you, this damage is considered magical and can be resisted. The amount of resisted damage is added back to the mana cost (so the amount of damage you didn't take gets applied to the mana pool). Furthermore, bloodmana heals the unit who cursed you by the amount of damage you took (hint for pvp). As a final note, blood mana will get you killed, as it will not go away when you hit low hp (I still don't get why they didn't do this in vanilla (it goes away after you drop to <= 40 hp IIRC), after all Iron Maiden could always kill the poor melee chars...).

Level Drain - level drain is a semi-permanent effect (that is, it lasts until it is dispelled by a restoration spell), level drain can make you lose up to 50 levels (you will lose only 1 level at a time). This also means that life, mana and stamina boni from the lost levels are negated. In the experience routines your full level is considered, so you cannot use this to earn more exp or get beyond a max level or anything stupid like that. Level drain also effects spell levels, that is, your spells will be weaker by x levels you got drained. All effects of level drain are cured by a restoration spell. (the effects will carry over if you exit the game and re-enter).
Last edited by Nefarius on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nimbostratus » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:29 am

I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I think you should be VERY careful with some of these, especially the ones that take control from the player or have permanent affects. While you're adding some really neat effects, some of the conditions mentioned in here make me (and many others, I'm sure) want to stay FAR away from this mod, regardless of whether or not they can be resisted. I'm all for things that add challenge for the player, but simply ripping control from the player and destroying his hard-earned items is only going to result in rage if not treated carefully enough.

Hope I didn't sound hostile, but I have serious concerns about the implementation of these things.

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by kingpin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:00 pm

Nimbostratus";p="399964" wrote:I'm sure I mentioned this before, but I think you should be VERY careful with some of these, especially the ones that take control from the player or have permanent affects. While you're adding some really neat effects, some of the conditions mentioned in here make me (and many others, I'm sure) want to stay FAR away from this mod, regardless of whether or not they can be resisted. I'm all for things that add challenge for the player, but simply ripping control from the player and destroying his hard-earned items is only going to result in rage if not treated carefully enough.

Hope I didn't sound hostile, but I have serious concerns about the implementation of these things.
I completely agree with you. There is some elements in there that for sure will take out the fun. While it may seems fun first time you face into it. But after 1000th time it wont be fun.

Also Acid effect should really be reconsidered to be reworked. Damage gears is ok, but remove hard earned gears is just a big NO. I wouldn't mind if Acid made your gears temporal broken (i.e non repairable) and let a blacksmith could repair your gear back to original status.
Last edited by kingpin on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:18 pm

As mentioned elsewhere, balancing is not something we are doing during development, but in post production when the entire thing is done with. How harsh and common effects will end being will be determined then, and not now.

What both of you are overlooking is the harshness configuration mentioned in many other topics, some of these things will be prone to config (whenever items can completely shatter or always break etc).

But as for reconsidering what things do, if people chose to play with a specific harshness setting, they should get what they pay for. The effects will stay the way they are described above. If you're scared from such harsh effects, you can play on a lower setting ;)
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by kingpin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:57 pm

What both of you are overlooking is the harshness configuration mentioned in many other topics, some of these things will be prone to config (whenever items can completely shatter or always break etc).
Well,

how many you think will play on "the most harshness option" then? if people can turn it off they will for sure and in that case why spend time into add it? or do you add it just because you can? :roll:

But as for reconsidering what things do, if people chose to play with a specific harshness setting, they should get what they pay for. The effects will stay the way they are described above. If you're scared from such harsh effects, you can play on a lower setting
It's nothing about be scared. It's just all about what make a game fun. If it's to harsh why spend your time on play it. If you get a hard earned item that you spend months on to get and it end with a boss who robb it from you. Do you really think you have that player left? the player may/or may not been awared about the harness option from beginning.
Last edited by kingpin on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DemonicAngel » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:59 pm

Some people like a challenge. If the monsters are tough to beat, it's only more satisfying when you do. :)
Last edited by DemonicAngel on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:26 pm

kingpin";p="399979" wrote:
What both of you are overlooking is the harshness configuration mentioned in many other topics, some of these things will be prone to config (whenever items can completely shatter or always break etc).
Well,

how many you think will play on "the most harshness option" then? if people can turn it off they will for sure and in that case why spend time into add it? or do you add it just because you can? :roll:
Why is that your problem? I'll spend time on whatever I want to spend time on. Just because 99% of the casual gamers out there don't like something doesn't mean I'm going to dumb it down for when I want to play it myself the way I have envisioned it (why behave like a corrupted company when I don't get paid for doing it :twisted:).

Me and Vendanna are working on something that we want to play foremost, anyone else that wants to play it too is invited to do so, this has always been my motto for developing things. We are thoughtful of course and provide easy difficulty manipulation for those who like to do things the easier way, but we aren't focing anyone into the walk-in-the-park department, neither are we forcing anyone to play it on "{filtered}-impossible" mode.
It's nothing about be scared. It's just all about what make a game fun. If it's to harsh why spend your time on play it. If you get a hard earned item that you spend months on to get and it end with a boss who robb it from you. Do you really think you have that player left? the player may/or may not been awared about the harness option from beginning.
If people dont read the manual before playing thats not my problem. Also, don't expect the default settings to be the harshest, default settings are normal settings.

Ever played R-Type III? You can end getting killed 5000 times before finishing it, yet it's a classic :), it's one of the harshest in the shoot-em-up genre of the 80/90ies but the game still is considered a classic today, even if it's prolly responsible for all so many broken TV screens/controllers/systems :twisted: (alongside the third installment of Contra).

...
DemonicAngel";p="399980" wrote: Some people like a challenge. If the monsters are tough to beat, it's only more satisfying when you do. :)
Yep, exactly :mrgreen:
Last edited by Nefarius on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by kingpin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:57 pm

Why is that your problem? I'll spend time on whatever I want to spend time on. Just because 99% of the casual gamers out there don't like something doesn't mean I'm going to dumb it down for when I want to play it myself the way I have envisioned it (why behave like a corrupted company when I don't get paid for doing it icon_twisted.gif).
it's different to make it "dumb" and "unfair". If you want to make it unfair for players go ahead. I readed responce from Vendanna as long as it's fair. But, remove players items permanent (regardless harness option) is just far from fair. But, ofcourse it's your mod/work and you do whatever you want. But, expect people complain then it's a bad design desicion.

Ever played R-Type III? You can end getting killed 5000 times before finishing it, yet it's a classic icon_smile.gif, it's one of the harshest in the shoot-em-up genre of the 80/90ies but the game still is considered a classic today, even if it's prolly responsible for all so many broken TV screens/controllers/systems icon_twisted.gif (alongside the third installment of Contra).
Ofcourse it was one of my favorites together with a commondore 64 game called IO (this game is one of my old time favorites!) and Armalyte.

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Vendanna » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:58 pm

kingpin";p="399987" wrote:it's different to make it "dumb" and "unfair". If you want to make it unfair for players go ahead. I readed responce from Vendanna as long as it's fair. But, remove players items permanent (regardless harness option) is just far from fair. But, ofcourse it's your mod/work and you do whatever you want. But, expect people complain then it's a bad design desicion.
First, this is too early too see the effects of it ingame for the harshness factor. (too early to tell if its fair/unfair)

Second, people is updating their gear/equipment when they can, so I don't see that mucho problem, especially when in vanilla hardcore you loose all the items if you die (and there were a huge amount of HC players)

Third, people will always complain (you can't have 100% happy) and this mod is mostly for our enjoyment. You can't assure how the mod will be on the final stage.

In the end, wait and see how it develops before judging something you can't see.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Rheikon » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:51 pm

I have to agree with Nefarius and Demonic Angel. 1 it is his game etc..
2. i love it when there is real challenge to it. if the world is just die go get stuff rinse repeat there isnt much going on. like in vanilla there is no real drawback to death or anything else for that matter. I second keeping things dangerous :twisted:

I do like though that there is the config in case im running low on dangerous :lol:

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nimbostratus » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Perhaps you should discuss what the player is expected to do against some of these effects. For example, what in the world does a melee guy do when his weapon is suddenly destroyed, or what any player is supposed to do about having a super rare item destroyed? Leaving the stone/freeze/fear effects up to a helper or resistance doesn't sound like a very viable solution; your helper could get frozen with you, and there are always times when you just CAN'T find an item with the right resistance.


On another note, here are a couple ideas for conditions:

Confused: When the player is confused, objects, monsters, and minions have their graphics switched around, and any target is attackable. Perhaps some controls such as skill hotkeys and potion buttons would be switched around too. If they players in your mod still have two weapon sets, their appearances could be swapped on the character model (i.e. if you have a spear on I, and a sword & shield on II, it would look like you were holding a sword & shield when you had I selected and a spear when you had II selected).

Fear: Rather than take control from the player, give them something to actually fear; Have their life bulb appear lower than it actually is, have strong "ghost" monsters appear (i.e. graphical only), and maybe change monsters' sprites to more threatening forms. So for example, if a goatman cast some sort of Fear spell on you when you were at 80% HP, it would suddenly look like you were at 40% HP and fighting a bosspack of frenzytaurs instead. Having such a fear spell on something that CAN summon the more threatening guys could make things really interesting. "Do I attack and hope they're fake, or run in case they're real?"

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Post by DemonicAngel » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:28 pm

From what it says above, it's not like your items are instantly destroyed... the Acid condition only erodes it over time.

If you want to save your items, go pay to have the condition removed. ;)
Perhaps there will be other ways to combat it, like paying to have the max durability on any item you really want raised, or even to make it indestructible.

Also,
Some types of equipment are not prone to Acid damage.
Last edited by DemonicAngel on Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:35 pm

Acid works this way, the effect is split into two seperate mechanics.

When you initially take acid hit, it picks one piece of equipment from what you have on you (which could mean it picks something indestructible too, so it has no effect on it)

If it is a weapon, there is a chance it loses max dur, if it is a peace of armor, it may lose ac or max dur, this doesn't happen all the time.

Acid deteriorate minimum durability but doesn't shatter the item on it's own.

After this, while you are full of acid, the normal durability loss routine is harsher, as your items are eroding, this means that hitting a hard surface enemy could reduce the durability of the weapon considerably (and it may break or shatter as the result which is entirely random). Same happens for your armor when you get hit.

There are a ton of ways to prevent this. If it's indestructible it won't have an effect on it, if it is adamantine it has no effect on it. Theres many ways to reforge items to add to their dur, or like DemonicAngel said, even make them indestructible altogether (they cost money ofc, but if you're so connected to an item you probably would do this anyway to improve it, if not, well thats your choice!).

In addition to just play w/o shattering rule being enabled, so stuff will always break and never shatter.

( not to mention there is less grind in getting items, so it's not like you'll spend 3-4 month looking for some weapon, more like at most 1-2 days to get a decent rare ) [ among others rares can be indestructible anyway if they spawn with the modifier ]

--- as for the other effects ---

They are traditional effects in RPGs, and so is using protection before you rush into the battle. This isn't D2 where we want everyone to run into a place and have nothing to worry about then taking damage. D2's lax gameplay just enforces people to never swap equipment parts (except for PvP) and not watching your conditions.

If you listen to the npcs, you can get warnings of where some of the greater perils lurk, and these effects aren't going to be attached to everyone and their uncle either. There are also tomes to read through with info about the weaknesses and abilities of what you may run into.

Fear effects are attached only to very strong and huge enemies ( some people can probably guess what type of enemies ). These battles are not automatic, as the boss will not attack you before you challenge him via talking to him (thin Gharbad logic where a npc becomes hostile and then attacks) [ you cannot attack them or fake/talk them either before they go hostile so no cheating there ].

For freeze, this is just like having cold resistance on you, and theres tons of stuff you can use to prevent such an effect, if you dont use this, thats your choice, but then don't complain about the results. ( potions of cold resistance, scrolls of protection from cold/elements, cannot be frozen, -% cold length etc ). The potions and scrolls will convert freeze to chill.

Stone Curse has ways to be prevented, as stated you can read a scroll of protection from petrification as mentioned above, which will prevent the effect from happening, theres only 2 types of base enemies that have native petrification abilities atm ( excluding the rare high level boss modifier ), some stronger mages may also cast it, but by then you will have enough means to generally endure the things we chuck around. Worry not about stone curse, worry about Mind Flayers.


The key here is what we want to enforce, preparation and strategy, if you blindfold rush into a hard battle, you will die, thats exactly what is supposed to happen (and would happen in reality too). Sure thats the way 80% of D2 players play, but then again, I don't care about that and never have ;).

As for the unfair and fair question, nothing is unfair as long as you can defend against it, if you get killed and didn't prepare for it, whose fault was that? Of course, there are those who like to make ironman builds that don't use "x" because they want to drive the stakes a bit higher, but ofc, these people probably are the last to complain about harshness ;)
Last edited by Nefarius on Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by kingpin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:55 pm

The key here is what we want to enforce, preparation and strategy, if you blindfold rush into a hard battle, you will die, thats exactly what is supposed to happen (and would happen in reality too). Sure thats the way 80% of D2 players play, but then again, I don't care about that and never have icon_wink.gif.
You know enforce players do it in your way never have been popular way? :P

You can punish a player in miljons way for not prepare himself. But, in the end it will be up the the player if he like it or not. If he doesn't like it, he wont stay and play it.

First, this is too early too see the effects of it ingame for the harshness factor. (too early to tell if its fair/unfair)
I know alot who doesn't see this as fair at all. But, we have to wait and see it ourself in-game :)

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:03 am

You know enforce players do it in your way never have been popular way? icon_razz.gif

You can punish a player in miljons way for not prepare himself. But, in the end it will be up the the player if he like it or not. If he doesn't like it, he wont stay and play it.
I do think thats more of what vanilla does with it's preset-everything :P --- this mod is (as has been mentioned a quintillion times), there to enforce strategy over the pointless-click-orgies. If somebody is looking for a grindfest where you only click and kill things, they should look elsewhere (theres a sheer endless amount of options in that department), as this isn't the right thing for them, and by any means, it's not my loss.

Complaining about this aspect is missing the point of the entire project (being tactics, countless combination of builds (without templates being forced down your throat), strategy, questing etc, in other words, everything but being a grindfest).
Last edited by Nefarius on Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:08 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Hygiliak » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:00 am

It is safe to say that I am at least surprised by Kingpin's reaction. And very happy that Nef stands his ground. I have been following this project from the shadows till now and I sincerely think this is the best thing that ever happened to D2 and, from the looks of it, the best thing that ever will. As a devout hardcore player I have never been more excited about the prospects of new challenge.

Like Nef said, he is not working for a money-hungry company and does not have to make concessions for anybody. He designs for himself, and only after that for the others. His project is a statement about who HE is and and how HE sees this game. If people choose to follow or turn their backs i hope it does not affect him. As long as he is pleased with his work and enjoys playing it, the shrieking voices of a thousand angry players should be nothing more than whispers.

Maybe i spoke a bit too soon and i missed how Nef is actually feeling, but this is exactly how I think and the feeling that someone like Nef might feel the same way is pretty neat :)

Cheers and good luck ahead ;)

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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:16 pm

Maybe i spoke a bit too soon and i missed how Nef is actually feeling, but this is exactly how I think and the feeling that someone like Nef might feel the same way is pretty neat
Yes, what you said pretty much summarizes quite well how I feel about all this ;).

I've always been for as much challenge as possible, bringing it to the absolute brink of what I can beat gameplay wise (while at the same time getting rid of stupid elements such as exessive grind). Challenge can take many forms, either through mind bending riddles or through rough combat with harsh consequences. MetalStorm will have both, and theres always going to be more then one way to achieve things (as mentioned long ago), which ofc doesn't mean that "everything is hard", difficulty progresses as you dig deeper, and it progresses along side you. You are not rambo, nobody forces you to go kill everything that crosses your path right away, you can just as well avoid some harder boss fights you aren't prepared for, and come back later if you want the reward for it.
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by kingpin » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:29 pm

It is safe to say that I am at least surprised by Kingpin's reaction. And very happy that Nef stands his ground. I have been following this project from the shadows till now and I sincerely think this is the best thing that ever happened to D2 and, from the looks of it, the best thing that ever will. As a devout hardcore player I have never been more excited about the prospects of new challenge.
What's the problem to point out issues? You could look at other games that have solve the harsh issues alot better. I don't find your reply fill anything of value at all. Instead it is as harsh as some of the features is in the topic.

I can give an example how WoW solved the freeze issue Diablo had. Instead of make player unable to do anything at all. They changed it to freeze player into place (i.e unable to move). Any damage have a chance to break the freeze (there is an internal max damage freeze can take before it automatically break). But, the player can still defend himself. The same goes for monsters.

If we look at the opposite how freeze work on monsters. You can really trivilise a monster by freeze him into place and keep spam the "freeze" effect. In general anything that you make harsh for a player. You will trivialise it then it's in the players hand. So, in the end how much tactical is it involve into freeze a monster?

Freeze is a gamebreaker. That's why you can't freeze a boss in vanilla diablo. If you could. Boss fights would been trivalised.

Now the topic doesn't say anything how freeze affect monsters, bosses e.tc. But, if it work in same way. Then it's really a gamebreaking effect.


Now a question for Nef:

frozen attacks will always hit you. Does this means you always take full damage as you always get hit or is chance to hit finally seperate from the damage evulation?
Last edited by kingpin on Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nefarius
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Re: Random Tidbits: Conditions

Post by Nefarius » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:22 pm

What's the problem to point out issues?
I guess it's more the way you posted your previous posts in this thread, tbh they looked more like whining then constructive criticism to me (and I guess others too) (no offense).
You could look at other games that have solve the harsh issues alot better. I don't find your reply fill anything of value at all. Instead it is as harsh as some of the features is in the topic.
Say's who? Thats your oppinion. So if it isn't WoW then it must be bad eh? There are instant death spells, and permanent death effects on Infinity Engine games (Maze and Imprison when cast on the protagonist are instant game-over, Mind Flay cannot generally be defended against et al., this is very harsh, and it's an equally good way to implement it (in fact those games are probably superior to anything ever made since, which is ofc my oppinion). How you manage a situation depends on how you play. If you think people do not adapt, thats again your oppinion, I've experienced that this isn't the case, even among open bnet players.

As for freeze, stonecurse, stun etc, these states cannot be stacked. You wont be able re-freeze a frozen unit to keep it motionless for eternity, the same applies to the player and to many other status conditions. There is a great variety of what effect works on what monster, and in some cases the effect may not weaken the monster and turn against you (since when does cold harm a ice elemental?). Also, most humanoid monsters don't come alone, they come in parties with different tasks, so their cleric/healer may cure them as well. As for snapping out of some of these states, don't assume that we lay out the entire mechanics pre-release :twisted: and that we live on the dark side of the moon and didn't think of things like this ;). There will likely be a pdf guide with all the formulae and mechanics available when we are close to a release.

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frozen attacks will always hit you. Does this means you always take full damage as you always get hit or is chance to hit finally seperate from the damage evulation?
Ofc the two things aren't connected anymore (they aren't really connected in vanilla too though :P, the two things are handled by entirely different, irrelated, code that however usually gets called in sequence by skills). Damage is handled in a different way then vanilla does it and gets buffered by a few factors.
Last edited by Nefarius on Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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