Any game-balancing threads?

[Ihop]

I can't seem to find any, since you two modders will be out of school trap soon, how about starting a thread on any balancing ideas so we players can toss out ideas and know what to expect?

But if you are thinking to wait on v1.10, well, I guess we can think about it after new year, hehehe.

[RicFaith]

a lot would depend on what Blizz is/isn't gonna do for v1.10. Honestly if they gave us an ETA and stuck with it, we'd know what to expect too. Still game balancing is just about the biggest thing for any kind of mod/game. Feel free to put some stuff down if you like, note that as the modders we'd still have the last say and rest assured if you make enough sense (or you pay enough I'm kidding) we're all ears...

[Ihop]

Ya I know modders get to call the shots, but it ain't bad to have players to say what they 'feel' from the game and if anything needs to be tweaked here and there.

Well, I haven't played all classes/builds yet, but so far here's what I think.

1. Some classes/builds lack a good early-to-mid-game (lvl20~30) skills/spells. For example, succubus at lvl10, that's good, next demon at lvl35 and 40? That's a damn long wait. I was constantly recasting succbus by the time I hit act3 normal, without additional points/demon mastery it dies to one inferno. For a summoner it's still ok since storm casters now do decent damage in normal and can have enough life to last in players 8. But for an arty conjurer...? Ugh, I was in pain. Maybe it would be a good idea to move pit fiend down to clvl25? That way, you get an upgrade of demons at clvl10-clvl25-clvl40. I think you were trying to make it longer for characters to hit that 'golden spot' where he/she will have all the skills/spells of choice, hence the clvl35/40 skills/spells?

2. The power of rares, yes, you'll hardly hear a player wanting -LESS- advantages in game, but check what I found the other day: rare bounty hunter armor +3traps +3burst of speed +2 shadow warrior(or was it master...), clvl req. 26 and str req 51. I dunno, I think that's overpowering. Some good prefix/suffix might need a boost in clvl requirement? Maybe it wasn't intentional?

3. Extra numbers of mobs in game means reduced killing speed for caster types, especially in early games. I mean, how many lightning can a lvl1 sorc cast? How many swings can a lvl1 cavalier/berserker/archer do before taking a mana pot or tp away? Enable players 8 and you'll notice the problem increase dramatically.

4. Act2 battlemagi, well, really shouldn't be charging into the fight if they actually have the hp of your-everyday-average-mage. That is to say, at lvl10 with 70ish hp won't cut it. My trapsin has near 170ish hp at lvl10, and that's without all points in vit. Maybe I need to play her more to see how much hp gain the mage gets per lvl, but so far he couldn't last any fights.

5. Wolfshift and greater wolfshift - do they stack? Will I need to stick with a lvl1 wolfshift if I really want the greater version? Sure I know I can dump some points into wolfshift if I want to make the games easier to bear, but there are many other excellent skills and not enough skill points to go around.

Anyway, there are other thoughts just not quite surfacing in my head right now, I'll edit as I can think of them. Now here's what I find to be better than CLoD.

1. Better map layout/quest sequence. You get the choice to just go for the final quest and advance to next quest, or do them all one by one. I really think that's how a game should be - offering alternatives for different styles of playing.

2. I LOVE THE MERCS!!!! (no kidding, I had that silly grin on my face when I was reading the merc section on your website. That silly grin often appears when I either purchased a good game or ...eh, something else inapporiate to bring up in public forum, heh)

3. Less skills means less points wasted to climb up the skill tree. Although that creates some problems for some classes/builds, but bearable. Also some skills/spells are nicely tweaked.

4. Increased speed for each chars, making it more convenient to move around.

5. Glabrezu/Pit fiend are just...very impressive. I sat there gawking at those two the first time I summoned them.

[RicFaith]

1. skill tree redrawing time again? any other things besides the Conjurer?

2. that's unintentional. you see rares are given random affixes from magicprefix/suffix. so it's quite hard to control, but can be done.

3. so smaller/fewer packs in early stages? the thing is that more enemies = easier leveling.

4. hmm I can look into the act 2 mercs. I can't remember who i styled it after, I believe it was the Paladin. Technically it makes sense coz the paladins were always low on life :p I'll see what I can do

5. no they don't. they're no different from Werewolf and Werebear. can't rebuild their coding because it's closed source...

[Ihop]

Well, since I've played only cavalier, conjurer, and bounty hunter (specialize on traps), I can't offer much on other classes. But I think shapeshifter should have werebear/werewolf form both available at similar lvl and perhaps without needing either as prerequiste (sp?), CLoD was notorious for mixing up the skills for werewolf and werebear, it made players reluctant to get some skills like hunger or avoiding werebear all together in order to save more precious skill points.

A quick glance at the shapeshifter's skill tree would indicate that hunger is now an independent skill, and I'd say 'to hell with leech gears, I got hunger,' hehe. But for those who wanna be Smoky, they have to bear (bad pun) with werewolf form until clvl40 (correct me if it's not at 40) in order to get greater werewolf form.

In my opinion, the 'spirits' the shapeshifter can summon shouldn't need each other as prerequiste. Since they are not exactly powerful than one another on the skill tree, as spirit wolf/greater spirit wolf/earth elemental are. It kinda makes sense in a way that in CLoD paladins don't need to get resist fire in order to get resist lightning/cold. The 'auras' have their own use, and not overlapping each other in terms of strength.

I wouldn't say anything about sorc since I haven't played one yet, and since she's all spells, I don't want to babble until I know what I'm talking about.

Archers compared to the amazons in CLoD are definately different now. Has the dmg penality on multi removed in bgmod? I haven't played one to lvl50+, so I don't know the full +%dmg on max strafe. Freezing arrow available at clvl14 might tilt a lot of things to her favor, due to a feature/bug in CLoD where the area effect of freezing arrow deals the physical dmg of arrow itself too. Maybe someone experienced with bgmod archer can comment on this topic?

Berserkers....never really liked those baba's, heh.

As strange as it might sound, a conjurer with a conjurer merc worked all right.... If not for the game crash I might be able to know more about that particular build. Look at it this way, bone spear clvl4-lightning wave clvl22-skull fire clvl35-chilling spirit clvl40...see the pattern? Still, that isn't as serious as it might seem, because conjurer can rely on CE and PE to back up the weak spear (assuming that you want to save points for higher end damage spells).

Really nifty idea of adding more class-specific items, btw.

Anyway, I wouldn't say to nerf any skills/spells this fast yet, if v1.10 comes that means double monster hp and all that, hopefull with some tweaks would be done in the patch before you need to spend more time on the mod.

Well, I'll put up more when I can think...getting a tad late here and I can't really focus...not to mention my trapsin finally (!) hit clvl22... Now only if I can mule that armor to her....lol Just hired myself an arctic wizard, man, let me say this again, I LOVE the mercs.

[RicFaith]

Well, since I've played only cavalier, conjurer, and bounty hunter (specialize on traps), I can't offer much on other classes. But I think shapeshifter should have werebear/werewolf form both available at similar lvl and perhaps without needing either as prerequiste (sp?), CLoD was notorious for mixing up the skills for werewolf and werebear, it made players reluctant to get some skills like hunger or avoiding werebear all together in order to save more precious skill points.

I dunno if you've played the earlier versions, but I had just the Wolfshift form (since the Shapeshifter can only shift into the Werewolf) back in an earlier release. However due to many (persistent) requests, the Werebear was styled as a Greater Wolfshift, although it's not hard to tell that they can't be linked in anyway except name and prereq.

In my opinion, the 'spirits' the shapeshifter can summon shouldn't need each other as prerequiste.

that's fine by me either way

As strange as it might sound, a conjurer with a conjurer merc worked all right.... If not for the game crash I might be able to know more about that particular build. Look at it this way, bone spear clvl4-lightning wave clvl22-skull fire clvl35-chilling spirit clvl40...see the pattern? Still, that isn't as serious as it might seem, because conjurer can rely on CE and PE to back up the weak spear (assuming that you want to save points for higher end damage spells).

You're supposed to rely on CE/PE and try bone wall to make life suddenly more interesting.

The thing with each release of D2X, the dlls change, and sometimes the textfiles change. If these change, there must be the consideration that we'd have to redo some if not all of the files to suit the new changes. And take the changes made by Blizz into consideration. (will someone please tell Blizz to give up on WC3 for a bit and finish v1.10)

[Ihop]

I guess it's a decision between accuracy/speed and hp/damage for shapeshifters...


As for CE/PE/BW, yes, I think that's the usual way. I just kinda went nuts and hired a conjurer, logic being that he'll do the CE/PN for me anyway...haha One point in lightning wave/CE/bone armor...surprised myself when I made it to nightmare...


Well, I figured that we can take a look at the mod and see what changes are needed, so when v1.10 comes out you two will have something to work with right away. Personally I don't know if the patch will come out before Starcraft:Ghost though.

So, basically, no hurry, cause blizz ain't gonna try to rush things up either, heh.

[SubSanity]

Well, I figured that we can take a look at the mod and see what changes are needed, so when v1.10 comes out you two will have something to work with right away. Personally I don't know if the patch will come out before Starcraft:Ghost though.

The wait for the patch has brought a phrase that's familiar to the Unreal community to my mind: "When it's done."

[RicFaith]

what I heard was that there are TWO (2) people working on Diablo II v1.10 so you can imagine the speed. But then again there are TWO (2) people working on BGmod hahaha... Still Blizz is going full steam on SC:G coz it's money-making. Diablo II is a closed venture to them I guess.

[zac503]

if only they made a d3

from what i see diablo is the most popular and long lasting game isnt it?

if they made d3 with like 3 diff expansions released over time