skillsystem

[VonHundengebissen]

[mod]I have split this topic. Although the first part deals with the betatesting, the second part of the post gets into the direction of the skillsystem, so why not have a topic dealing with the skillsystem .[/mod]

english translation of the second part:
p.s i have calculated the stuff with the skillpoints. from lvl 1 to 99, you get 1562 skillpoints. that sounds a lot at first, but if you look closer you realize the problem that you hardly get a skill to lvl 40 with that, because otherwise you have no skillpoints left. that means that your system, designed to make more skills interesting for a character, will have the exactly contrary effect. i assume that the skills get effective only at high level. but that costs an enourmous number of skillpoints. you spare these at other places (skills), which results in even more monotonous characters. i have no idea if this assumtion is correct, would just be nice to get an answer


german original message:
@Char:
Würde dir gerne helfen...
Nachdem ich mir deine Überlegungen zum Skillsystem angesehen habe glaube ich das es schwer ist von vorneherein zu sagen welchen Char man spielen will da sich Aufgrund des neuen Systems vollkommen neue Möglichkeiten ergeben.
Wenn ich helfen darf dann wären meine liebsten Chars: Barb, Pala

Ps: Ich hab das mit den Skillpunkten mal nachgerechnet, von Level 1 bis 99 bekommt man 1562 Skillpunkte. Das hört sich zuerst sehr viel an, aber bei genauerer Betrachtung ergibt sich das Problem das man kaum einen Skill annährend auf 40 bringen kann da man sonst keine Punkte mehr hat. Das bedeutet, es ist möglich das dein System das dazu entworfen wurde mehr Skills für den Char interesant zu machen nach hinten losgeht. Ich nehme an das die Skills erst auf hohem Level richtig effektiv werden. Das kostet jedoch enorme Mengen an Punkte. Diese spart man bei anderen Skills ein wodurch die Chars noch einfallsloser werden. Ich hab keine Ahnung ob meine Vermutung richtig ist, wäre nur schön von dir ne Antwort zu bekommen.

[Char]

of course, here is the answer (i will speak english slowly and clearly so you can understand ):

the system is truly designed to make MORE skills interesting than currently are. assuming 1562 skillpoints (actually i get 1682, and will take this number), you can get:
1 lvl 1 active skill to lvl 36 (1559 skillpoints)
or
2 lvl 1 active skills to lvl 29 (1670 skillpoints, eight from quests)
or
3 lvl 1 active skills to lvl 25 (1647 skillpoints)
or
4 lvl 1 active skills to lvl 22 (1544 skillpoints)
or
6 lvl 1 active skills to lvl 19 (1560 skillpoints)

one skill only is total crap (and is no fun), you will just die on some enemies, barb needs masteries, and so on. assuming you got +6 to all skill levels, you have the choice between 6 lvl 25 skills and three level 31 skills. of course, the lvl 31 skills will deal more damage, but with six skills, you have better chances to react on different situations, which is more fun and you might be able to kill faster, too. highlevel skills are VERY expensive. i hope i will not have a lot of one- or two-skill builds, if i will have, i will tweak the skillsystem a bit and make high skillevels even more expensive.


for the same number of skillpoints it costs to get one skill from level 29 to 30 (85 skillpoints), you can bring a completely new lvl 1 skill from lvl 0 to lvl 12 (84 skillpoints), for a level 30 skill its still skillevel 10 (86 skillpoints). there will be a lot of skills that will be usable at lower levels than 20 + skillbonus, but you might have to rethink your play .

[pmpch]

I wanna buy a license for your skill system. How much is it?

So far I'm trying to implement a max skill level of somewhere around 10-12 and some stat requirements to balance out uber skill usage, but I doubt that will work as good as your system. We'll see.

[VonHundengebissen]

8) english...
One question : If this is your goal, what is the different to the originel skillsystem. There you have ~100 Skillpoints and you can get about 5 Skills to max.. Everybody will save the skillpoints for zhe higher skills because they are much better. In d2 normal everybody save points for highlevel skills. Its true, you can get for 1 point in a highlevel skill x points in a lowlevel skill. But who needs thoose crap(?)? Do you need bash as barb ? No you need ww (for example). If you want to stop this trend you must change the skills. I don't know how (now) but you must find a way to make thoose crap-skills mor interesting.
Your spellpower is a good idea . We will see wheni is unbalanced in the beta test.
And now ANSWER ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pmpch]

ENGLISH

In LoD version 1.10 many people will greatly invest into one or very few skills and it's synergies, as this make one skill incredibly powerful. Examples are Meteor, Fire Ball, Lightning Sentry. This in return will result in many builds the are almost the same, diversity will be ruined.

To prevent this 3 measures where taken

1) random immunities
2) new skill systems
3) synergies were removed


DEUTSCH/GERMAN

Viele Spieler werden bei LoD (Version 1.10) nur in einzelne oder wenige Zaubersprüche oder deren Synergien investieren, da dies gewisse Zauber enorm stark macht. Beispiele sind Meteor, Feuer Ball, Blitzwächter. Das wird viele ähnlich aufgebaute Charaktere zur Folge haben, was die Vielfalt unter den Charakteren enorm schwächt.

Um das zu verhindern wurden folgende 3 Massnahmen ergriffen:

1) zufällige Immunitäten
2) Neues Zauber System
3) Synergien wurden entfernt

[Char]

And now ANSWER ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmm. please dont do this, thanks.


okay, all skills will be changed, so that for example might becomes interesting, while concentration and fanaticism are still interesting, too. this works like this: might has the highest damage% bonus. concentration has a bit lowe damage% bonus, but adds a chance to have an uninterruptable attack. fanaticism gets no damage bonus at all, but increases attack speed A LOT. same goes for other skills.
for your question about "why do you need other than WW as a barb": at least, you might want to have berserk at a decent level. furthermore, there are some warcrys that might be interesting, namely the crowd-control ones (howl, taunt). you can use those to divide the physical immunes from the not physical immunes or to get the aura enchanted boss out of a large crowd. then, you use some single-target skill to slay him to death and switch back to whirlwind to kill the masses.
of course, you could have done all this with whirlwind as well, but the other tactic will be more effective by far. a lvl 15 single-target skill might be better to kill a single enemy than lvl 30 whirlwind. this is even more true for sorceresses for example, who need at least one skill from each element because there will be enough immunes.
the difference to the original blizzard skillsystem is that you can decide how many skills you get to high levels. in vanilla LOD, you can get 5 skills to max. you have 5 skills at max nearly always. its not possible to make a build like sorceress with thunderstorm, firewall and frozen orb maxed plus masteries maxed (lightning and fire) and cold mastery at lvl 5, because you just dont have enough skillpoints. you get not much stronger from lvl 80 on because your primary skills are maxed. this is different with my skillsystem. at least, i hope so....

[VonHundengebissen]

it was a joke !
this can be good.very good. i hope you will finish the beta fast, i can't wait to test.

[Char]

pmpch: seems like i have found a defender of my skillsystem .


sadly, the skill system will most probably not be in the beta, or better: it will only be in the beta if i am in the mood of hours of code editing for a beta that will probably not last longer than... a few days.