Moderator: Nefarius
so I want everyone to play a meaningful role, and buff [filtered]s don't qualify. I want the melee types to feel they are really helping by being there, the caster types to be glad they have a nice barb/druid/pala to intercept the incoming enemies and the single target casters to not feel overshadowed by their AoE brethren.
In other words, any ranged units you're in melee range of aren't going to be bothering anyone else anyways. As for cb, it's already quite nerfed in effect as well as in quantity. Still, a 20 cb several yard radius AoE attack might be too much. I don't suppose there's a way to make cb not work with it?
D2Data.mpqI have no idea how it was back then nefarius, do you have the texts for that or something so I can look?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing the only necromancer skills my players deem worthwhile are amplify damage, decrepify, lower resistance, life tap, iron golem, fire golem, poison nova, and bone armor? I did at least get them to leave hammerdins alone, for better or for worse.Right on! Take a look at the necromancer skill tree for ways to make the game more varied without resorting to stupid immunities. Prior to LoD, it mattered if the monster was melee, ranged or a spellcaster. Now all that matters is whether it is magic immune. Sigh.
Ai I already speeded up a bit, players are noticing. But it isn't stopping them, only slowing them down. Or maybe having no effect at all, the highest level players I do not play with so I dunno, as I fall behind due to modding and work in general. It takes something really nasty like a get-hitskill lightning fury + lr to stop them. Did I mention this is a unit that always spawns with the multiple shots mod?improved ai (aidelay, ai type, ai parameters);
I'm not sure how to speed up attack and hit recovery speeds but I do know how to assign units ias and fhr. Some already have it.· increased attack and hit recovery animation speeds;
Do you mean increased damage FROM regular critters? I don't want regular enemies to take MORE damage, that will only widen the AoE ranged/melee split.· increased damage to regular critters (do reduce boss bonuses though!);
Already is.· cold slow % reduced, all other slowing options (decrepify) nerfed;
Alternately, give recastable tanks that don't need a corpse a recast timer long enough so it's unlikely it will outlast it vs anything hard. Those tanks aren't that invulnerable when anything hard kills them in 5 seconds or less.· nerf to hirelings/minions so they aren't invulnerable;
I know you'll laugh at this, but none of my players use any of those skills. Ever. Well maybe 1 or 2 soloes with CoS, but if he uses it in a MP game, oh the profanity!· nerf or removal of uber crowd control (CoS, mindblast, dim vision);
They even go so far as to refuse to use shadow master on their assassins because they cannot control it casting those skills. Now I use some of them for soloing, but I've never had any need for them in any multiplayer game as units simply die too fast for it to matter that they are blinded, and converting slows down the 1337 dudes as someone put it. It probably doesn't help I used (abused?) the boss flag a LOT, especially in the high end areas. So they don't even work.I refuse to change this on the grounds as soon as I do I will vanish off the face of the earth, no doubt due to angry players extracting their revenge. They regard heal pots as useless because they do not even come close to mitigating the damage dealt by anything hard, rejuvs are regarded as the only option in such situations (common) as any strategy involving heal pots involves 5 seconds of fighting and 30 seconds running around waiting for the pots to work and hoping no AoE nova type attacks are involved that will hit them anyways. And they aren't that far off in their thinking.· removal of rejuv potions, regular ones changed to heal over time;
I guess when the aim is high difficulty high damage output compared to the heal over times is unavoidable though. *shrugs*Life steal is already less effective thanks to changes I have made to drain effectiveness and such. Of course in hindsight I realize I made this pointless by increasing the amounts of it... Not nerfing weapon damage though, there's too much caster favoritism as it is without weakening melees.· reduced life steal, and especially weapon damage;
It'd take more than that to make stamina useful. Also my players are VERY elitist, I'm sure you know the type. Enough str for gear, enough dex for gear or max block, rest vit, 0 energy. Quite frankly I do not need to further encourage the use of a high vitality score.· reduced stamina, so characters can't outrun everything;
Hoob, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic... if yes, right on. But if you meant that seriously, do you realize you just listed no less than 8 non-passive skills? I think this is exactly the variety that Brother Laz was approving of. Show me another character with 8 very useful non-passives.Hoob";p="272197" wrote:Is it a good thing or a bad thing the only necromancer skills my players deem worthwhile are amplify damage, decrepify, lower resistance, life tap, iron golem, fire golem, poison nova, and bone armor?
I will play devil's Blizzard's advocate for a moment and tow their party line a little. I think immunities are supposed to encourage party play, so that no one soloist can go through hell alone and defeat every monster.Hoob";p="272193" wrote:Personally I think immunes are an artifical difficulty/frustration more than they are a true difficulty/challenge.
Anyone know the code for a strikethrough?devil's
And that is a dumb idea in a game that also has single player modeso that no one soloist can go through hell alone and defeat every monster.
Go ahead and search this forum as I told you before, there even is a topic dedicated only to stamina and how to balance it.It'd take more than that to make stamina useful. Also my players are VERY elitist, I'm sure you know the type. Enough str for gear, enough dex for gear or max block, rest vit, 0 energy. Quite frankly I do not need to further encourage the use of a high vitality score.
Speeding up AI alone will not help, you need to make it less predictable, using all 100s params is bad for this purpose, an approach that you can use to make the AI less predictable is to use those AIs that can cast many skills (oblivion knights, summoner, vampires, mephisto, diablo) and melee AIs like (duriel) to a greater extent for base monsters. Also, adding units that look identical to other units but act totally different can be a neat gimmick.Ai I already speeded up a bit, players are noticing. But it isn't stopping them, only slowing them down. Or maybe having no effect at all, the highest level players I do not play with so I dunno, as I fall behind due to modding and work in general. It takes something really nasty like a get-hitskill lightning fury + lr to stop them. Did I mention this is a unit that always spawns with the multiple shots mod? icon_mrgreen.gif
MonProp.txt - but this can lead to glitches, doing it via CE is recommended.I'm not sure how to speed up attack and hit recovery speeds but I do know how to assign units ias and fhr. Some already have it.
The problem with damage in d2 is that characters pump too much into vit, find a reason for people to invest more then they do into other stats. The best way to do this is change internal calculations around and make use of str/dex there.Do you mean increased damage FROM regular critters? I don't want regular enemies to take MORE damage, that will only widen the AoE rangedHooblee split.
It was a serious question. I was not sure if that was considered good or bad.Hoob, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic... if yes, right on. But if you meant that seriously, do you realize you just listed no less than 8 non-passive skills? I think this is exactly the variety that Brother Laz was approving of. Show me another character with 8 very useful non-passives.
In theory, yes. In practice it means one of the following:I think immunities are supposed to encourage party play, so that no one soloist can go through hell alone and defeat every monster.
Internal calculations huh? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but I'm guessing it's not as simple as jacking up the strbonus and dexbonus on various weapons?The problem with damage in d2 is that characters pump too much into vit, find a reason for people to invest more then they do into other stats. The best way to do this is change internal calculations around and make use of str/dex there.
(which I already did, old habits die hard even if it did work) And no, I'm not kidding. That isn't "elite", thats just making a cookiecutter/template char. If people are doing this with ease it is usually indicating that your item system is too predictable (in english: you invested too much into gosu-uniques and thus it's too easy to plan a char to every statpoint), that or your players are duping gear.It'd take more than that to make stamina useful. Also my players are VERY elitist, I'm sure you know the type. Enough str for gear, enough dex for gear or max block, rest vit, 0 energy.
Internal calculations: each and every calculation you cannot alter by mere txt editing.Internal calculations huh? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but I'm guessing it's not as simple as jacking up the strbonus and dexbonus on various weapons? icon_razz.gif (which I already did, old habits die hard even if it did work)
There pretty much is no real difference between force and encourage in this game, since you really can't force someone to do it, if someone wants to make an all-vit char, he CAN do it, force in the way I use the word means that doing so will apply a greater penalty then vanilla does.Also if it does force rather than encourage more str and dex, won't that be more of a melee nerf than a caster nerf?
If they are unwilling to learn you must force them to do so (force again in the terms of abovePersonally I think my players will adhere to the rest vit formula even if rest vit is something stupidly low like 50 just from force of habit if nothing else. But we shall see.
) - a way to do this is to reduce the number of stat points earned. I do fine with 2 per level, and it makes one actually think were to invest them. On a side note, if a player keeps with his D2 standards in a mod and succeeds make an uber char its a sign the mod isn't really different from vanilla and suffers from the same core problems.One change will not magically fix D2, everything me, Laz and anyone else will post regarding balance is a small piece of a big jigsaw, In the sense of vanilla units doing that would be overkill, but vanilla is broken beyond belief, with each single aspect being out of sync. To achieve good balance everything must be rewritten and based on common global values. One issue in vanilla is that the various aspects were designed by different people and later on briefly "tested" to remove the most blatant unbalances and then tossed into BNet. Balance is only achieved if all aspectes of the game are in near perfect harmony (unit stats, char stats, item stats, skills, unit density et alia).And I am very reluctant to give any unit a high ed attack such as berserk or charge. I'd either have to make the unit damage way too low to do much damage with anything else, or settle for having another normal unit that does high 3 digit or low 4 digit damage with its high ed attack. icon_rolleyes.gif And no, I'm not kidding.
No, your players are constalty fleeing, since they likely run rather then walkI will look into the stamina thing, but personally my players don't flee much. Except maybe at low levels, but then stamina matters anyways.
Elite does not mean the same as elitist. Elitist = striving to be optmized at every turn. Since said players regard str and dex beyond what is needed for wearing gear and obtaining max block and energy beyond what the character starts with as useless, the "best" way is the formula they have followed. As for being able to follow it, some are better at it than others. And there are a few that have this sort of aversion to str or dex gear bonuses period, so they insist on taking the opposite approach and having enough BASE str to use a sacred armor and a base dex of 220 and then they complain the game is too hard and cry for nerfs because their sub 100 vita at high levels gets them killed very fast.That isn't "elite", thats just making a cookiecutter/template char. If people are doing this with ease it is usually indicating that your item system is too predictable (in english: you invested too much into gosu-uniques and thus it's too easy to plan a char to every statpoint), that or your players are duping gear.
Will you hate me if I say my players will not go out of their way for defense?Internal calculations: each and every calculation you cannot alter by mere txt editing.
There are many examples of this, how about making defense work while running IF str/dex are in balance in relation to cLvl (if they need to be in balance it will not be "pump up to xxx to achieve yyy").
Making blocking based on str and dex.
And also non-internal calcs, replace existing damage synergies with energy synergies. So that casters pump enr rather then vit.
Likewise, you must make boni to stats RARE on items, so that people don't just use +str,dex,enr gear to pump themselves. Hint: Do not have charms that add to str and dex, bonus from jewlery should be low as well (very low, not more then +5).
Meaning they won't take it so far as to run around at level 70 with a quited armor on, but they will not sacrifice something off the long list of things they consider more important for it. In other words they are not going to use a high def but otherwise weak item over a medium def and several other nice mods item. Though if they find a high def and several other nice mods item they will use it, provided of course it doesn't have some extremely high stat requirement for the level. For example they won't touch ancient armor or ornate plate with a 10 foot pole. Nor will they put more than a single point into a defense raising skill. Unless said skill makes a massive difference, like 25% per point. Maybe. But since melees typically need more str and dex than casters, they would then have lower life. Even if they still had more than a caster, it really isn't helping things by nerfing what everyone believes to be underpowered.There pretty much is no real difference between force and encourage in this game, since you really can't force someone to do it, if someone wants to make an all-vit char, he CAN do it, force in the way I use the word means that doing so will apply a greater penalty then vanilla does.
2? If I recall correctly the block formula is something like 15 + 2 dex * level to maintain the listed block %. Meaning any shield using character would have to be pure dex to even attempt to have max block, and then they'd have base str and base vit. Considering these players consider melee paladins underpowered and thanks to some overbuffing by me (don't ask!) 2 handed weapons anywhere from fine to overpowered, I do not think this is wise. Now I'm sure if I were willing to learn I could change that calculation, but to what? Simply making it require less dex would just be the equilvent of simplifing an equation - it's still the same ratio. Using a classic style block formula would result in noone except ranged attackers having to worry about dex, as few non ranged items have a dex requirement and the players will apply the same formula.If they are unwilling to learn you must force them to do so (force again in the terms of above
Well on vanilla all of the stats are a bit lower. There such a unit would 1 shot most players. Here a player sighs in relief when something hard hits them for high 3-low 4 digit damage. *runs like hell*One change will not magically fix D2, everything me, Laz and anyone else will post regarding balance is a small piece of a big jigsaw, In the sense of vanilla units doing that would be overkill, but vanilla is broken beyond belief, with each single aspect being out of sync. To achieve good balance everything must be rewritten and based on common global values. One issue in vanilla is that the various aspects were designed by different people and later on briefly "tested" to remove the most blatant unbalances and then tossed into BNet. Balance is only achieved if all aspectes of the game are in near perfect harmony (unit stats, char stats, item stats, skills, unit density et alia).
What I meant is they rarely retreat, although they do use it to move TOWARDS the enemies sometimes.No, your players are constalty fleeing, since they likely run rather then walk
That doesn't make it any less cookiecutter/template-ish.Hoob";p="272270" wrote:Elite does not mean the same as elitist. Elitist = striving to be optmized at every turn. Since said players regard str and dex beyond what is needed for wearing gear and obtaining max block and energy beyond what the character starts with as useless, the "best" way is the formula they have followed.
Note suck is their choice of word, not mine. Strong aversion to that n word you see. On a side note they don't mind my buffing the units much, even if doing so has the same effect on their performance as that n word.
. Also, there should always be a viable solution to end all possible situations without boring grind or infinite running away.